Broken Motor Mount

Have several questions about this problem for those mechanically inclined. The motor mount is actually okay, what is broken is the flange off the bell housing of the engine where the motor mount bolts to that has fractured. Port side rear...of course. Universal M-25, three mounts, that one is the one impossible to get to. Yard wants to repair in the boat, I have reservations. They say they can support engine from beneath, but I don't see how without supporting directly against hull, resting on the oil pan of the engine. I'm inclined to pull the engine to repair. Had considered possibly bolting a strip of steel to the remaining flange to replace mount area but access makes that idea pretty poor choice. By the times all the parts are off the area (alternator, manifold, starter, exhaust riser, heat exchanger) just to gain access might as well just cure problem with more than a band aid. Fracture is across the bolt hole of the flange where the mount bolts to.

Questions. Has anyone else had this problem before? Considering welding bell housing together to reuse as a replacement is around $725. Would a weld in this area be as strong as original or better off just buying a new one? Does lifting the engine off the grid and supporting most its weight on the engine pan trouble anyone other than me? I can remove everything to get to the mounts easily enough, my problem is how to support to give myself time to have the welding done (if that is what I choose). Lastly, doing in the boat you need ability to slide back the transmission off the main shaft spline, I just don't see the clearance being there to do that. Will try to post some pictures later. All thought appreciated.

Yard quotes labor cost 16 hrs. I feel removing and replacing engine bound to be less than that. And once out, working on it easy, either repair or replace shouldn't take very long at all. Am I missing something?

Is this engine under the companionway? Pictures would help, although I can imagine what it looks like if it is under the steps. What kind of propeller shaft seal do you have - dripless shaft seal or a conventional shaft log with the flax packing? If you have a dripless shaft seal you should haul it for this job.

If the yard says they can do it without completely removing the engine, they probably can. For me, what looked impossible to access a few years ago, is now just a matter of getting dirty, spilling fluids and/or getting scratched up.

Not sure about your question about welding the bell housing. Is it aluminum or steel? You'd have to trust the welders input on that. I know there is a whole specialty industry around welding aluminum heads, pans, transmission cases, bell housings, etc. Heat treating is usually required to ensure strength and stress relief.

I had a similar problem with Sketcher, our 1983 35-3.

The crack was on starboard rear. Had the option of pulling the engine/replacing the bell housing.
Because there was a crack and small part of where bolt for engine mount goes through gone....decided for large washers (top & bottom).

Remounted with new engine mounts all around. Did this by lifting engine 3". Has been balanced perfectly for 8 years now.

If you still have most of the hole left for engine mount....this might work for you.

Hilco Woudstra

The engine is under the companionway, the stuffing box is a packless shaft seal. I'm attaching pics, corrected orientation on my desktop prior to loading but still having issues, apologies. I believe the bell housing is cast iron (plan to check with a magnet next time I see it). The washer idea is intriguing, but mine might be broken too deep into the flange to be doable.

Oh yes....that is broken too far. I asked about welding originally, my mechanic had a reason the weld would NOT hold...something about the metal.

Sketcher

I really don't see an issue about support from below. You're not talking about dropping the engine from 5 feet in free fall, but gently supporting it. The hull and the pan should have more than enough strength for this. Regarding the weld, it's down to the skill of the welder. Aluminum can be done, but it takes someone who's good at it and is honest about their skills. I would also look at seeing if you could source a bell housing off a junked engine versus buying new.

Hope this is of some help

Is it a Kubota part?

Two issues here:

1. The bellhousing may be a Kubota part which means you can likely get it for a fraction of that cost from a tractor parts supplier. It is aluminum, BTW. The engine is a Kubota model D-850.

2. You can definitely do this without pulling the engine but it ain't easy. I did it with the boat in the water when replacing my trans.

Koboto parts

Hi, January 2016 ,phoned Koboto in Japan, after checking all over town for a new head for my Koboto M16 , as found in my 1986 Ericson 30+ named EDEN
(I was rebuilding the motor) I sent them the required $$ the head complete with gasket kit arrived in 10 days. and the price was well under the quoted price here
. This time frame included customs Motor now has 257 hrs I also had the starter and generator rebuilt with a three year warrenty. ( cannot get 6 months on a new one.

I hope this info helps someone, Chas and Judi Eden E 30+ have been sailing this great boat for over 20 years, maybe some of yoou know me from the Rendezvous
we have attended good luck and good sailing

I looked at mine today and I've thought of another fix for it, but read on with an open mind!

Remove the trans & bellhousing. They come out as a unit and then you un-bolt the trans from inside the bellhousing. Remove the broken piece from the motor mount. Clean the breaks very well with acetone. Get a large, oversized 5/8" fender washer with as big an O.D. As you can find. Get a couple of tubes of J-B weld epoxy, mix up a batch of it and "glue" the broken piece back on and "glue" the fender washer beneath the break to align it with the hole, so it supports the part across where the breaks are. Smooth the epoxy (it will naturally smooth itself somewhat). After waiting for a full set to the epoxy, reassemble.The adjusting nut will need to be lowered a bit to compensate for the added thickness of the washer & the epoxy.

The epoxy is actually stronger than the original material. The only issue may be the bond between the epoxy and the casting and if it is "fairer" well, it should work. I once did a similar repair on a Toyota Corolla and it lasted for many years and never broke.

Thanks for all the replies. I always forget to check Kubota pricing, glad that was mentioned. The washer/epoxy idea also a good one, what I will need to do is get the bell housing out of the boat to visualize if there is enough material at the mount to feel good about the longevity of the repair. Will call Kubota Monday. Unable to get up to the boat today but I was thinking it was aluminum as well, looks like it, the yard swears it is cast iron. Will see. I'll post back when I know more. Need to get after it before the season arrives, time getting short. Thank you to all.

Kubota cross-reference chart:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...241-Universal-5432-amp-M40-engine-information

As a professional welder I can give my personal opinion. Welding cast aluminum is nearly futile, it does depend heavily on the quality of the casting but will typically not be reliable. Maby, possibly, perhaps if accompanied by additional bracing to sure up the splice. Maybe.
If it is an iron casting there is a slightly better chance of an ok repair if it is a high quality casting, but the odds are still not great and most likely the repaired part will never be as strong as the original.
I would also be curious to see if the original failure may have been due to a flaw in the casting.
My advice would be to remove the broken part and either replace with new or have a new one fabricated using the old one as a template. (Not a difficult job for a good fabricator) I don't recomend any kind of repair using jb weld. There are just too high of stresses placed upon a piece like that. And a project like this you don't want to be doing again in two months.

My .02

Bellhousing removal

Pat,

To remove the bellhousing:


Regardless of what you choose to do with that bellhousing, you have to get it out of there.

Close the thru hull. Drain the H.E. Of seawater and coolant. Remove the H.E. And the bracket. Move the hoses aside.

Unbolt the trans coupling. Leave the coupling on the shaft if you have enough room. Slide the propshaft aft as far as you can. If you have to remove the coupling it is tough to do but can be done, BUT make sure you put a hose clamp tightly on the prop shaft so you don't accidentally slide the shaft back and out of the boat, sinking her in the process!

Get a piece of thin plywood to put under the pan to spread the load. Use a very small scissors jack underneath it. Loosen the nuts on top of all three motor mounts. Slightly loosen the bolts around the circumference of the bell housing. There are two bolts which thread in from the opposite side and were hard to see on my boat. Lift the rear of the engine with the scissors jack. Remove the cable and bracket if you haven't already done so. Put a small board under the trans for when you pull it off. It is not too heavy....maybe 30 lbs. combined with the bellhousing. Remove the bellhousing bolts and pull it and the trans out as a unit. Take it home to disassemble and work on it.

This would be the time for a new damper and/or motor mounts.

Reverse all these steps to reassemble. Then re-align the engine to the propshaft. An alignment problem could have been a factor in your broken bellhousing, or not.