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Anyone remove their handrails...

adam

Member III
... that weren't thru-bolted?

As I understand it, for the boats where the handrail wasn't thru-bolted they may might screwed the handrails into a an aluminum plate built into the deck.

If so, all of these screws may be completely frozen turning this project into a total nightmare.

Does anyone have any info? I'd like to wrap my head around the scale of this project before I think about trying it.
 

adam

Member III
What a mess... under one bolt (or screw) there is a hole in the liner and that's dripping. Under a bolt on the other side, there's some crazing. And expecially near the front of the handrails they aren't solid, they wiggle a bit, which all leads me to believe there is some deck rot.

i removed two bungs to investigate and the screw heads are filled with either epoxy or something else. I've got one soaking in acetone now, but I'm not sure that's actually removing it.

So advice...

1. Any suggestions on how to clean out these screw heads way down a hole in the handrail?

2. I'm considering just cutting away the first two rungs of the handrail where things are worst using a wood saw and angle grinder, then doing my best to seal the rest of it with 4200 around the outside of the base. Not ideal, but seem like a reasonable approach?
 

716Ericson27

Lake Erie Viking
Handrail Removal

I took the handrails off my E27 to refinish and re-bed because of similar leaks. My port handrail was all through bolted with a nut on the inside of the cabin, making removal pretty easy on that side. However, the starboard side was as you are describing....the bolt screwed into an embedded anchor. All my bolts on this side had flat heads whose slots were filled with whatever adhesive was used to put the finish plugs in. I remember taking an old flat head screw driver and grinding it to a fine sharp tip which I then used to scrap out the slots. It took some time and patience but was worth it in the end. No more leaks and they look pretty now.
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adam

Member III
Unfortunately my screw heads are Phillips. I'm not having any real luck with a sharpened screwdriver, dental pick or vicious sail sewing needle.

And I don't have time right now to spend a ton of time on this project as there are many other big projects that also need to be done.

Leaning towards just slicing off the front of the handrails...
 

aeroaj

New Member
Wedge

So I am in the process of changing out my rails as well. On the port I ended up having to shim up next to the stuck bolt. This gave me enough room to slide a hacksaw blade underneath and cut through the rusted out bolt. I just used a couple of wooden shims and it worked out great.

Side note. My rails hand a mix of bolting from the bottom and bolting from the top. As well as some connections literally having 2 nuts, one on top and the. The one on rail inside the cabin...

I am also considering replacing both teak rails with some SS Steel 1" pipe..

Unfortunately my screw heads are Phillips. I'm not having any real luck with a sharpened screwdriver, dental pick or vicious sail sewing needle.

And I don't have time right now to spend a ton of time on this project as there are many other big projects that also need to be done.

Leaning towards just slicing off the front of the handrails...
 

ChrisS

Member III
I removed my failing and leaky handrails last June and fabricated new ones. Indeed it's a big job. I used a heat
gun to soften and to then scrape whatever adhesive obscured the bolt heads.

Most bolts were through bolted, but the three most forward bolts were not, and those were frozen into
anchors imbedded in the deck. I soaked these with PB Blaster, heated with a propane torch, and hammered away
with an impact driver.
 

adam

Member III
Chopped off first section

And it was just screwed in with a wood screw.

Investigating what Im going to do next....

IMG_0431.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Plan B

Looking at examples on YW, I count 8 loops in that long wooden hand rail.
If facing this problem, I would check out pricing on a new SS set in the appropriate length. Contact any sailboat builder with a US plant. Also check with Garhauer.

You will have to fill the old holes with epoxy mush, but there's good chance that the new rail will cover (nearly) all the old plugged holes.

No more varnish re-work every few months, either. No more Sunbrella covers to make or buy. More time for sailing...

Loren

ps: link for an example at a reputable vendor:http://www.fisheriessupply.com/whitecap-industries-teak-handrails
 
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adam

Member III
Right now I'm debating trying to save the rest of the handrail. Maybe try to wiggle it loose and pry it up with a big crowbar? But I'm leaning toward just cutting it up and replacing the whole thing.

When I replace it, I'm considering emulating this design from my neighbor's Baba 30. It seems simpler and a lot more leak resistant.

IMG_0433.JPG
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Adam,

I would be tempted to make new handrails, like Chris mentioned. I thought there was file on how to make them on this site but I can't find it. They are not that hard to make. Basically you drill big holes in a long teak board, cut between the holes then rip the whole thing in half.

On my E27 the interior handrail does not continue into the head. The exterior rail is longer and was screwed in like yours (not through bolted it that section). When I replaced my handrails I drilled those screw holes through the headliner, filled with epoxy, redrilled and through bolted them from below. You see the bolts on the ceiling in the head but the handrails are much more secure.

If you do make new handrails I suggest not drilling through the top of the exterior rails. Embed threaded inserts in the exterior rails and screw all the bolts in from the inside. That way you have no holes to fill on the outside. The handrails on the interior will have holes in them which you can fill with plugs. Plugging those holes was my plan but the holes are still open. It is nice being able to get to those bolt heads to tighten them if you get a leak.
 

ChrisS

Member III
Adam:

I got one piece of five quarter FEQ teak from this place in West Oakland:

http://www.palsearthsource.com

It cost $230.

Using the explanation in Don Casey's "This Old Boat," the old rails as templates, and some mentoring from a friend of mine who is a retired shop teacher, I made new rails. It took some time, but was a fun and satisfying experience.

My exterior rails mate to interior rails, all but the forward three bolts (on each side). For two of those those, I cut though the headliner with a 1/2" hole saw and through bolted them. I then got flush plastic plugs from the hardware store to hide the holes in the headliner. I couldn't use this approach with one bolt on each side as they lined up with a bulkhead below, so I got some threaded anchors, and using a dowel punch, marked where they needed to go, drilled holes, and screwed them in.

I coated all fasteners with a bit of Marlube so I (or a FO) won't have any problem removing in the future. I also used butyl tape to bed the rails.

Lastly, I used Awlspar varnish.

Beefy, secure rails, no leaks, and they look great.

If I were in your shoes, I'd plug the holes until the weather dries out, and pick away at this one. Much of it is inside work.
 
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adam

Member III
After being open for decades, PAL Earthsource recently went out of business. :-(. MacBeath is still open. Im not doing anything until the next break in the rain, so I've got at least a few days to think about this.

Let me know if this idea is insane:

Wiggle the handrail back and forth probably with the help of a big wrench to loosen up the screws, and then pull the whole thing off with a crowbar.

If the rest of it is also just mounted with relatively short wood screws, I think it will work.

Any minor damage to the deck can easily be repaired.

Then I'll throughbolt it when I reinstall it.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
If I were making new rails, following Casey, I would first take a look at the hardwood bin at home depot.

6" mahogany is about $6/foot and my store has teak, too--for much more.

I'd also consider either stainless steel or using Casey for something synthetic, like Trex.

The synthetic decking materials are easy to work with wood tools, routers and so on, and would require no finish at all.

I don't know how they'd look. Probably like a $500,000 Beneteau.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Adam, You said the screws are Phillips head. Can you drill a small pilot hole in the center of the screw head, then use progressively larger bits to drill away the screw head from the screw shank? The rail would probably pry off easily with the screw heads gone. You could then try removing the screw shanks with vice grips or just cutting and grinding them flush with the cabin top.
 

adam

Member III
Ken, that seems like a very reasonable approach. I'll give that a try before I go after it with a wrench. :)

Adam, You said the screws are Phillips head. Can you drill a small pilot hole in the center of the screw head, then use progressively larger bits to drill away the screw head from the screw shank? The rail would probably pry off easily with the screw heads gone. You could then try removing the screw shanks with vice grips or just cutting and grinding them flush with the cabin top.
 

ChrisS

Member III
Reusing the old rails

Sorry to hear the business is no longer. When I was calling around for teak, Macbeaths in SF had a board I needed but the Berkeley store did not. (PAL was less expensive.)

Adam, trying to pull those rails as described probably would work. One suggestion my retired shop friend made was to laminate thin teak to the old rails, then cut to match the loops and shape/sand. Mine had previously been sanded so may times that I just decided I'd get the shape I wanted by making new ones.
 
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