Matching Replacement Sole Color (stain? )

After some extensive and exhausting research and trials, we are still unable to get a decent match to the original veneer in our 1983 38 ft. It's making us crazy as we really don't want to pull up the pieces that are undamaged, and it would be great if the sole didn't look like a coloring experiment gone horribly wrong. Has anyone managed to do it, and if so, could you share what you discovered?

Many thanks - the best part of these boards is the helpfulness of the community.

Details

Larshine,

Maybe a bit more information would help the community respond. Is it in an area where you can cut out and replace? Have you sanded through the veneer? Is it the Teak or Holly that you need to match?

Best of luck,

A cell phone photo of the situation would help a lot. See here.

Oh, and welcome aboard the forum!

More Info

MMLOGAN said:

Is it in an area where you can cut out and replace?

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We cut out the sections that had gone bad, which is basically the galley, chart table area, and the straight run from the steps to the threshold of the v-berth. The other pieces are absolutely fine so we have truly managed to luck out with cutting out sections.

MMLOGAN said:

Have you sanded through the veneer?

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We did not sand through the veneer - but we do have two pieces to use for matching. The hubs has purchased two sheets of 3/4" Marine teak/holly plywood and they are as pale as light beer. Would it help to try and sand down the originals when they aren't a splintered mess of garbage? :/

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MMLOGAN said:

]Is it the Teak or Holly that you need to match?

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There's no way for us to match the holly, so we are not concerned about that...but the deep reddish brown of the teak remains elusive.

I will attach a few pics to give a better idea.

Photos As Suggested

Christian Williams said:

A cell phone photo of the situation would help a lot. See here.

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Brilliant - should have thought of that myself. PICS AHOY!












(1) ORIGINAL PIECE OF SOLE
(2) Test Piece of new T&H with some stain/epoxy applied to each section for matching
(3) Test Piece up against the original Sole section.
(4) Another look at some of the stain/epoxy on a new piece of T&H
(5) Another view of the test piece in another lighting area.

Can you feel the frustration? In some light the original is smoky brown. In others (not even super bright or overly direct sunlight) it's a warm reddish brown.

I'm tempted to rip up all of it and weatherwash it grey.... which is not in the budget or the best interests of the boat, I suspect.

Christian Williams said:

Oh, and welcome aboard the forum!

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Many thanks!

Shades of Sole

Do Not assume that the "color" of the old sole is true.
When we cleaned and bleached the original sole pieces of ours, they lightened up a lot. Even when worn down, sanded a bit, and solvent-cleaned, they still had some of the original factory stain (light cherry?) in the wood.
I would suggest totally doing the old sole and also the new pieces with "Te-Ka A & B". and then touch up with 200 grit and lay on the varnish.

One of the longest threads on this site deals with sole restoration.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1526-Removal-of-glued-down-cabin-sole/page5

Ours is pictured in reply #72. After all these years it still looks like that, albeit duller from foot traffic.

Regards,
Loren

Regarding the holly, try isolating it with tape and light sanding to lighten.

The veneer is a 1/16th teak ply glued to a 1/16th plywood ply on top of 5/8th plywood (in other words, the veneer is not really 1/8 thick). So sand carefully.

Christian Williams said:

The veneer is a 1/16th teak ply glued to a 1/16th plywood ply on top of 5/8th plywood (in other words, the veneer is not really 1/8 thick). So sand carefully.

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I would recommend sanding more carefully than Christian suggests. I measure the 3/4" T & H plywood I have as being only 23/32" thick and the plywood under the veneer 11/16". This makes the veneer 1/32" thick.

Disclosure: I made the measurements with the same vernier calipers I used while helping Noah with his ark. It was good to 1/128" back then. They do agree with my CS Johnson plastic calipers handed out at a boat show.

larshine - Do the new T & H strips align with the strips on the old sole? The teak dimension on new T & H is different than on all of the Ericson soles I've heard about.

Larshine,

It looks like you are trying to match the color of the old varnished T&H by staining the new unvarnished T&H. The teak portion of the T&H will change color dramatically (darken and go more red) when varnished. From my experience refinishing my original 1981 T&H sole, I doubt Ericson stained the original T&H soles of our boats. You would not want to stain (darken) the holly and there is no way anyone at the factory had time to mask off the long thin holly strips to stain the teak portion.
A trick to see what any teak will look like varnished is to wipe some acetone on it. When wet, it will darken and redden up like it was varnished.

My T&H was very tan when striped and it darkened a lot when varnished. I used a very brown piece of veneer for a repair (post #1 of the second link) on my tan T&H and it didn't darken much and matches pretty well when varnished (post #12 of the first link). Both links below have info and pictures on stripping and refinishing the T&H.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?13839-Varnishing-cabin-sole-(again)

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...e-(again)-Pictures&p=96963&posted=1#post96963

Like Tom, I'm curious if the new T&H dimensions match the original T&H on your 1983 boat? The new T&H doesn't match my original 1981 T&H. It would be nice to know what year the T&H dimensions changed.

Let me know if you have any questions, I have lots of pictures of my refinish. You can also look at the boat in Annapolis if you are passing through, it's in the water all year.

Mark

From Hilco on Sketcher

I am a furniture designer, and work with Akzo Nobel out of their High Point, NC & Vietnam/China office on product, developing finishes.

Suggestion: strip the old sections of floor to raw wood (be gentle...this is very thin veneer), lightly sand with 220. then use a "wash coat' of 5-10% varnish. The wash coat will seal the wood just enough for you to see if a match can be there. It can also be sanded off, if needed.
Sand with 220, look at the color of old & new. If not a good match, add some color stain over the new to bring closer. "you will NEVER get a perfect match" if trying to keep in the lighter tones.
The darker you go ...the easer to match...but that defeats the great colors in teak & holly. As time goes by the new will start to blend more with old from sun & exposer.

Instead of bothering my friends at the Akzo Nobel or Sherman Williams, I will go to Lowes or Sherman Williams paint store and find stains that can work. sometimes mixing two colors to achieve.


Hilco Woudstra

Larshine,

As you labor, this may help: the sole of our boats is subject to so many angles of light , reflections and shadows, and so often reads "dark", and so different day/night/dusk, that color variations in varnish are not all that noticeable.

I believe that high-gloss varnish contributes to this effect, by making the reflections stronger. It's also not slippery at all.

The sole had discoloration from CPES, near-wear through of veneer, a few epoxy repairs and a deep old layer of Cetol horrible orange.

Sanded with 220 and 320 and three coats of Schooner, in the end it looks quite good and appropriately original (1984).

This may be one case (the only case) where high gloss is "forgiving."

Yeah, trying to stain new teak and holly ply to match 30 year old material is not recommended. Even when new, the light/dark
can vary significantly from sheet to sheet. Your best bet is to carefully strip the old stuff to bare, and take a sample of it to the lumberyard
and paw through their stock until you find something you can live with. If that sounds like too much work, then my advice is to
replace it all with new. 2 sheets should be enough to do a 38, and then it all should match.

2 sheets should be enough to do a 38, and then it all should match.

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Two sheets would have been enough for my E-34, but the admiral insisted that the holly strips all run in the same direction. I bought three sheets.

+1 from Hilco, He is dead on! I have many years experience as am amateur furniture builder and wood finisher as well as a professional shipwright.

good luck! Capt. Ian