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54 screw holes...

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
...in the cockpit from 40 years of different objects screwed to the fiberglass. I googled the following to no satisfactory avail: What is an easy way to fill all these holes before painting? By easy I mean least amount of work as I'd rather be sailing. Thank you.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Tedious, but the results are worth it

I might use a slight-oversize drill bit with a stop on it, set for about a half inch. This little amount of enlarging would quickly show which, if any, have moisture inside. Be sure that all are dry before proceeding.
Then tape off each one - yup that's a lot a bits of *3M blue tape - and fill with thickened epoxy. Use a small screwdriver or toothpick to get the goo all the way to the bottom of each hole.
Hardest part for me is color matching the old gel coat. Once you get that right, just dimple the filling about a 16th deep with a countersink (yikes, 54 times) and use a flexible blade to smooth the new gel coat into each one.
Have a micro brew while waiting for 20 minutes and then admire your work. If you get a sag or uneven place, you can often shave it off before the new surface is fully cured.
I have a friend that does this work professionally, and he would finally and carefully use 300, then 600, then 1000, and then "finessit" to buff out. His work is usually perfect... my efforts, not so much. :)

Loren

*be sure to use lots of 3M tape. I own ten shares of that company. :rolleyes:
 

adam

Member III
I do similar to what Loren describes except I use West System epoxy syringes. It makes quick work of this type of job.

And thickened epoxy shrinks as it cures so it's generally easiest to overfill the holes, then sand them flush.
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Thank you all.
Christian, yes I plan to roll and tip the cockpit this spring. I am looking not for perfection just a cleaned up look as far as my eye can see when at the helm. Gosh I love sailing this boat.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, that makes filling the holes easy, since you'll be sanding anyhow. I'd probably just fill with Marine-Tex epoxy.

I'll be interested in your decision about one-part or two-part paint. Members have had good success with two-part, I haven't "learned" it yet, myself.
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I might use a slight-oversize drill bit with a stop on it, set for about a half inch. This little amount of enlarging would quickly show which, if any, have moisture inside. Be sure that all are dry before proceeding.

In addition to enlarging the holes to make sure the surface is solid and dry, you may also want to "chamfer" the holes slightly. In the past I used a countersink to break the edge of the hole (both sides, if you can get to the inside). This gives the filler material more surface to mechanically bond onto, and also makes it easier to feather the patch without having a visible edge.

Don't use an oversize bit for this part - if it catches, it will drill a new larger hole O_O

$.02
Bruce
 

Navman

Member III
54 holes

HOLE'Y COCKPIT BATMAN! Do they whistle when the wind pipes up?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!!:cheers:
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Hi Bill,

Is the gelcoat so far gone that buffing and gelcoat filling (vs painting) is the only option? I ask because it seems once you commit to painting you can't go back and you are on a re-paint schedule based on the type of paint and quality of the paint job. The original gelcoat seems to have any kind of paint job beat for longevity. The prep for each paint cycle seems like more work than the yearly or every other year buff and polish required of gelcoat. Once holes are filled and the gelcoat repaired, they are gone forever.

I don't think everybody has the patience to do gelcoat repairs, but I just eliminated my cabintop winch farm of 3 winches, 3 cleats and a cam per side and I'm amazed at how the holes just disappeared. Each side required filling 23 holes in the smooth white and tan non-skid gelcoat. I've never done gelcoat repairs before but I read a few online articles and took my time color matching and the results were way better than I expected. It didn't take that much time either. I'm now ready to try the three giant 3.5 inch holes in the bulkhead where the old Signet displays are located. Even a marginal color match in shiny buffed out gelcoat will be better than those three black (dead) displays.

If the gelcoat is beyond repair this type of work isn't an option but it might delay the start of the paint/repaint cycle. Just a thought.

Mark
 
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alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Gee Mark, I really never thought about that. Point well taken. The gel is pretty worn away and dull, but it's still there. I'll give it all a look over with that in mind. Thank you.

And: If only they did whistle- I might be able to play a tune with differing size holes and area behind them. That would be interesting with guests aboard- kind of a participatory music jamboree thing.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
took my time color matching

As a random aside.... it can be A Good Thing to have a second set of eyes look at a color-match. Especially female eyes.

Nearly 1 in 10 males have some form of color-blindness. The most common (red-green, 6% of all males) can make subtle differences between light-toned grays and greens and beiges really hard to detect.

I know this because (in a *very* brief foray into doing gelcoat work) I once did what I thought was a perfect color-match on a client's off-white Etchells... and when I was done he said it was so bad he wasn't going to pay for it. I think he actually used the word "horrid". I looked and looked, couldn't see anything wrong with it.

And then my then-girlfriend took a look and told me it wasn't even close. Said it was a greenish-beige where it needed to be a pinkish-beige. Which completely befuddles me, but... I understood enough to realize that I wouldn't be making any money matching gelcoat colors.

$.02

300px-Ishihara_9.png
 
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markvone

Sustaining Member
Bill,

The first step is to try to buff some areas and see how they come out. I have a few areas where the gelcoat is worn through and there is a light grey bleed through. It's still shiny and not that noticeable. My boat went 6 years from full boatyard buff and polish to when I did the topsides last summer and deck and cockpit this fall. All my dirty, chalky, dull areas buffed out to almost like new. It took more time than I had planned and it was boring going over the same area many times but I tried to focus on a small area each day to get it done.

My dad was totally color blind but I did not get those genes. My white match was slightly too white but better than my tan match which wound up too dark. Once you wet sand the excess off so there is just a circle of new gelcoat, you can always drill out the new gelcoat and start over if the color match is too far off.

Mark
 

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Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
All this talk of piercings and wind induced whistles reminds me of the Trailer Park Troubadour's song, "My Baby Whistles When She Walks" ;-)
 
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CSMcKillip

Moderator
Moderator
A little work can go a long way

I will keep this short and if an option I would be happy to further my explanation on how I did it.
i re-gel coated my full cockpit on my previous boat. It was not hard at all, just takes an extra step vs painting and the results were very good.

for the holes. Get a 45 degree router bit and chuck it in your drill. You want to widen the holes at the gel coat or they will spider crack... all hardware should be installed this way!
i use polyester resin as that is what was used when the boat was built.

if you want more information on the gel coat let me know.

Chris
 

CSMcKillip

Moderator
Moderator
Background:

I bought a Catalina Capri 25 that was damaged. The boat ad been hit on the Starboard side, mid deck. The top deck was crushed at the rub rail about 22-28 inches and the hull was damaged or holed below the rubric and the glass in that whole area was crushed. I spent a full winter reading up on fiberglass repair, how to remove and replace, ect. I contacted Catalina and got the layup schedule of the glass layers and was reading about how I was going to del with the top deck and replacing the damaged glass as well as replacing and matching the non skid.

Effort 1: Glasswork
I read may and may write ups on glass repair and came to the conclusion that I was going to replace the glass as it was done at Catalina - I took a grinder and cut out all the damaged glass, hull and deck. I have photos that I will post later - they are archived. I wanted to use Polyester resin to fix the hull as I read that epoxy didn't bond well with polystyrene. I built up layers of glass and followed the schedule that was provided cooking the resin between layers and making sure that the mixture was just right by following directions and using a pump system. All Gelcoat is polyester resin with color pigment added. The hull I decided to paint - I used a full suit, are regulator mask, ect - the whole deal. Bought a spray rig and sanded the boat with a ladder 13' up in the air. 100 to cut the old paint, 400, the primer, filler, sand some more, and then 6 coats of Brightsides paint - Interlux I think. Then color matching sanding - several times - I NEVER want to paint anything again, NEVER...

Effort 2 : Deck
The deck at this point had a hole in it, I would say it was 1/2 moon in shape over several different compound radius angles for track and hardware along with a channel for water to run in - very similar to our decks but my track for my Genoa was outboard and next to the rail. Same method was used above but the deck had cormat as the filler layer so it was built from the bottom up. Once I got to the top deck and glass work I got the basic shape layed out and was using polyester resin and glass as a filler. I was using it more like filler putty but much stronger and the poly would still hold to itself as it does not fully cure until the air is sealed off from it.

I got the deck built back and then took a router (yep) and carved out the channels where the equipment would go. I thin would add filler and final sand the areas. The non skid was my best idea of all. I took PVA (poly vinyl alcohol) and put this on the port deck, I then took gelcoat and several layers of glass and made a mold of my nonskid. I then took my router and set it down about 1/16" to 1/8" and routed out the area for the non skid. Poured in gelcoat and resin and let it setup until almost cooked, prayed the mold I made with PVA and set it so gently onto the deck, placing 4 12v batteries on top and let it cook for an hour. It turned out very well and got a lot of compliments from boat owners at our club on the job.

OK Now your part - My deck didn't match and I hated it- I spent all this time and the new non skid was a different shade as then new- so, I took a mask and covered my face as I always did, and then cleaned the full deck non skid with acetone, I cleaned it 3 or 4 times to get all the crap off the deck. I then mixed up resin and gelcoat and using a very small roller just went over the old gelcoat with the new batch - I worked fast and sectioned off area I know I could do in a short amount of time. Once I would finish the area I would spray the PVA all over the area so it would cure hard.


I will look for some photos - resin vs painting - The extra step is the PVA and results in my mind are worth the little effort it takes.
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Thank you Chris. I was getting a little lost but when I got to the last paragraph I got it! It sounds pretty easy. Does the PVA act as a hardener or something? I looked up PVA- it dissolves in water?

To have gel cote vs. paint I believe is a big plus. I want to learn how to do this. I don't feel too confident I can do this from what I read in that paragraph, or is it really that easy?
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Does the PVA act as a hardener or something? I looked up PVA- it dissolves in water?

The kind of gelcoat typically used in a factory is meant to cure without the presence of air. So to do a gelcoat repair you mix the gelcoat with MEKP (the hardening agent), you spray it on, and then you spray on a coat of PVA to "seal" it against the air so it will cure. When the gelcoat has hardened, you scrub off the PVA and should have a nice smooth (and relatively non-porous) surface.

I'm told that there are now gelcoat products that are pre-mixed with a wax so that they don't need to be sealed to cure... but I have no experience with them.
 

CSMcKillip

Moderator
Moderator
Above not really true, PVA is applied to the inside of the mold, gel coat is applied first the the glass layup schedule. Without the PVA the gel coat would stick to the mold.

i would not use gel coat with wax.

MEKP is used in all polyester layups and yes this is the hardener or chemical that is added to the resin to harden.

You don't have to spray the gelcoat, I used a small 1/4" diameter roller that was maybe 3" wide. I mixed the gelcoat with the polyester resin, I color matched at this point, and when I was close and the deck was cleaned with aceatone I then added the drops of MEKP to the colored resin and worked very fast to get my sectioned off area covered. I then sprayed the whole area with PVA, I let it cure for an hour then washed off the PVA with water.

try an area in your garage first. Get a piece of glass and test it out.

I will be happy to share any of my knowledge on this. Still looking for photos as the capri25 association has moved the server.

chris
 
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