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To sail or not to sail?

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
Forecast for Saturday on the Chesapeake is 20s gusting to 30s. I am single handed, and I've only sailed other people's boats and windsurfers in that much wind. What kind of trouble can I get into? If I try it I'll start double reefed with a little bit of jib rolled out. But I've got a case of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt). I am much older now than I was as a windsurfer. :egrin:
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
That's quite a bit of wind for first solo sail. The hardest part will be if you can safely get away from your slip and get docked again safely. If you are confident about that, then you will likely be ok with a double reef, or just a partially furled head sail.
Just my opinion...
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have sailed in 24 kt true, and a single reef and a 95% heard sail was perfect. With your additional second reef you should have no trouble.
As noted already getting away from the dock and getting tied up again is the most difficult part of a windy day's outing. :0

Also, waves can be uncomfortable if you sail in an area with a lot fetch. Move around cautiously, and always remember the ancient advice of "one hand for yourself". Wear you pfd.... we really like our inflatable ones with the hydro inflators - no more accidental inflations on damp days. Ours have the incorporated harness, so clipping in is easy, too.

Thursday Sale on opinions: only one cent!
:)
Have fun!

Loren
 
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GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
I have sailed in 24 kt true, and a single reef and a 95% heard sail was perfect. With your additional second reef you should have no trouble.
As noted already getting away from the dock and getting tied up again is the most difficult part of a windy day's outing. :0

Also, waves can be uncomfortable if you sail in an area with a lot fetch. Move around cautiously, and always remember the ancient advice of "one hand for yourself". Wear you pfd.... we really like our inflatable ones with the hydro inflators - no more accidental inflations on damp days. Ours have the incorporated harness, so clipping in is easy, too.

Thursday Sale on opinions: only one cent!
:)
Have fun!

Loren

That's quite a bit of wind for first solo sail. The hardest part will be if you can safely get away from your slip and get docked again safely. If you are confident about that, then you will likely be ok with a double reef, or just a partially furled head sail.
Just my opinion...
Frank

Just to be clear, it would not be my first solo sail, just my first in these winds. Teens to twentys are comfortable.
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
Plan "B" is bourbon, barbecue, beer, crabs, and oysters. No disappointments. (Also single handed this weekend)
 
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Wolfemusic

Bettina
Forecast for Saturday on the Chesapeake is 20s gusting to 30s. I am single handed, and I've only sailed other people's boats and windsurfers in that much wind. What kind of trouble can I get into? If I try it I'll start double reefed with a little bit of jib rolled out. But I've got a case of FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt). I am much older now than I was as a windsurfer. :egrin:

That sounds like a perfect day of sailing for me here on the bay. My e32-ii loves it when its over 20. I run a single reef and about 70% jib....Stays nice and balanced. Id say go for it.
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Steve,
i was thinking the very same thing. We're expecting a nice cold front tomorrow through Saturday with north winds at 20 plus. The Admiral is out of town so I thought I would do the same.

Getting the boat in and out of the slip without banging things up is the issue.
Let us know how you do!
Rick
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I think you'll enjoy it. The boat sails well under partial jib alone.

Harness and jacklines when out of the cockpit.
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
Thank you all for your input. I agree, getting out of the slip may be the biggest obstacle based on the predicted wind direction.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Those conditions are what we call, "summer" around here. Going out and doing it is the best way to counter FUD. But by all means, use less sail area until you build confidence. Sail balance becomes crucial - in fact, as the wind builds, my boat becomes easier to steer by just trimming the sails. A couple of days this summer, I just rolled up the jib and sailed Arcturus like a big dinghy, with the tiller in one hand and the mainsheet in the other. It was a blast, but my arms are barely long enough. (Robust tiller extension handle for xmas!) The chop also sends a lot of spray over the bow and tests to see whether everything is stowed properly below.

Also, when one is perched way up on the windward side and doesn't dare let go of anything, one may start wishing that one had installed the instruments (particularly the depth gauge) in a more centrally-visible location. :rolleyes:
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Try it!

You will never know what sails to use or how difficult or easy it is to sail in higher winds with your boat unless you try it. I will assume you have a functioning and (as far as you know) capable autopilot for this exercise. There is no way I would try it solo without one. I would also prefer a small jib (#3 90 - 105% LP or #4 +/- 70% LP) which are easier to use partially furled or full size with no main. If all you've got is a furling 130 then go with it and you'll see how well it works partially furled. You may decide a smaller jib is a good idea or not worth the expense. I have a 105% #3, mostly because I have a 150% primary summer genoa (vs a single 130%).


Here's my list of problem areas (don't ask how I found this out):


1. Getting out of and back into the slip without banging into something and causing damage. How easy is your docking situation? I'm way up a creek but can have strong cross winds. My docking details are simple. All I need to do once in the slip is attach a spring line to stop reverse progress. All my fenders are on the dock/piles so I have no fender "management" issues. I also have rub guards on the piles so I can fetch up on them with do damage. Getting out of the slip would almost certainly require rubbing a pile in a strong cross wind since my slip is only 1.5 feet wider than the boat.

2. Under autopilot, into the wind to raise sails. Does your autopilot actually steer under these conditions? If no, turn around, go home and consider your options: never do this again solo vs get bigger autopilot for future cruising/big wind adventures vs need more crew for really windy days. Good to know this. Also, how does the motor due pushing into big wind and head seas?

3. Raising pre-reefed or full mainsail. How is your reefing setup? Does it work? Can you get the clew tensioned so the main is flat? Does the boat sail OK with full main and no jib? Do you need some jib for balance? Tacking is much easier with main only and no jib. How is your main car, traveler hardware working? Enough mainsheet purchase? My hardware is original and worn, mainsail purchase at 7:1 works OK to 15 knots and then shows its age. Getting replaced this winter.

or

3a. Roll out part of the jib - less than you think you need! Keep the furling line under control at all times and DO NOT let more jib out than you want to test! It is MUCH easier to unfurl more jib than furl excess jib. You may find that furling the jib requires more force than you can provide manually. At up to 15 knots (max), I can sail downwind with my 150 genoa. At that wind speed I can not furl it manually if I turn into the wind just due to the load of the flogging sail. I have to furl this sail at these wind speeds going downwind so it is less loaded AND I have to re-run the furling line from the normal 57mm Harken block and cam to a large spin sheet check block and a winch. I bent and mangled the block side plates trying this the first time.

4. Stow everything loose down below. You'll probably still find new things to stow.

5. I'd have my harness on all the time, even in cockpit.

Mark
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
3a. Roll out part of the jib - less than you think you need! Keep the furling line under control at all times and DO NOT let more jib out than you want to test! It is MUCH easier to unfurl more jib than furl excess jib. You may find that furling the jib requires more force than you can provide manually. At up to 15 knots (max), I can sail downwind with my 150 genoa. At that wind speed I can not furl it manually if I turn into the wind just due to the load of the flogging sail. I have to furl this sail at these wind speeds going downwind so it is less loaded AND I have to re-run the furling line from the normal 57mm Harken block and cam to a large spin sheet check block and a winch. I bent and mangled the block side plates trying this the first time.
Mark
Mark,

Some sage advice here, though I would raise some cautionary flags about 3a.

While I can't make a blanket statement about *all* furlers, I believe that a typical roller furling system should *not* require the use of a winch, and using one could result in damage. For instance, the manual for my Harken does not prohibit it absolutely but provides this warning: "The furling line should pull readily. The amount of force required is related to the amount of wind, but Unit should never require use of a winch to furl. If the sail will not furl, or if furling requires a great deal of effort, there is a problem with the system. Consult the Troubleshooting Guide on Page 32. Do not use a winch to force a system to turn. If you are certain that the system is operating properly, you may use a winch to make furling easier" (Harken MKIV Jib Reefing and Furling Unit 0, p. 28). So I interpret this somewhat ambiguously worded caution as follows: If you absolutely require the use of a winch to furl, then something is wrong. If you can furl without one but want to make it easier, then you may use a winch. Regardless, it's clear enough that one should exercise care and not just crank the snot out of the furling line.

My sail maker suggested a method to me that seems to work pretty well, and I've used it to good effect when single handing. He says just bring the boat head to wind as you would through a tack, and as the boat is going bow to wind then quickly pull in the sail with the furling line. I find that I can reef the sail without it flogging much, if any, longer than it would be going through a tack. In fact, I can usually get it reefed as far as I want and then using the boat's forward momentum simply fall back off to my original tack if that's what I want. I also find that I can roll in the jib entirely, if that's my goal, with only a bit more flogging than would be the case if I were going through a tack. My sail maker's advice is consistent with the Harken manual (again on p. 28): "In a breeze you must completely luff sail by totally slacking jib sheets before furling" (emphasis in the original). By doing this with the boat in the process of sweeping head to wind, it keeps the flogging under control vs. e.g., simply blowing the sheet on something like a beam reach.

I agree also that furling downwind can be a good thing as well, because of the lower apparent wind and also because you can blanket the jib with the main, but I find that my autopilot sometimes gets squirrely on such a course. It's a technique I'd use with crew aboard, though, when a competent helmsman could keep the boat in course. Naturally, if one's autopilot does a better job than my ST2000 on such a course then that technique would be fine single handed.
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Hi Alan,

I hear you. The manual for my factory original Harken Mk 1, Unit 1.5 furler says exactly what you say. However, at 12 knots and above, and fully luffing my 150% genoa, it is still impossible to furl it with manual power. My caution is for anyone with a large headsail and an older furler. They should be prepared to run the furling line cleanly to a winch and/or furl downwind if they go out or get caught out in high enough winds to have to reef down their genoa from fully out.

This is not good situation, the boat is difficult to maneuver under power, may not be able to power upwind with the full genoa flogging and you may not have planned for any room downwind. There is a good chance your genoa could be damaged. The first time I was in this situation a quick calculation of the cost of a ruined new genoa vs. a busted old furler was resolved by getting the sail furled! I didn't re-run the furling line to my heavy duty turning blocks so I mangled the furler line block with the high loads. My second option was to drop the genoa but that brings even more issues as well.

I suspect a shorter LP (130 ish), lighter weight Dacron genoa will have less problems than I have. The E36RH 150% genoa (like the E35 and E38) is HUGE, over 500 sq. ft. and mine is heavy ~ 65 lbs. The luff being furled is almost 22 feet long and 50 feet tall. This is why I prefer to start with my #3 on windy days.

A newer model and/or a larger size unit could probably get the job done. I suspect my Unit 1.5 is undersized. Everything seems to work normal but after 35 years there probably is some wear in the bearings as well. I would upgrade to a new, bigger furler but it is usually light wind in my area, so I rarely have this issue. If I were out cruising the world, a new furler would be my first upgrade.

Mark
 

alcodiesel

Bill McLean
We were planning to sail today. My son sweetened the forecast- "20kt gusts" said he. I am way too lazy to go out and fight wind 25-30kt, 35 gusts. Did it all the time when younger. No thrill anymore coming in all worn out-
 

GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
We were planning to sail today. My son sweetened the forecast- "20kt gusts" said he. I am way too lazy to go out and fight wind 25-30kt, 35 gusts. Did it all the time when younger. No thrill anymore coming in all worn out-

Gusts to the mid 30s in Rock Hall. Plan "B" implemented.
 
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alcodiesel

Bill McLean
Yes, plan B. My plan B was going down to the marina and taking a nap on her whilst she rocked me. Slept like a log for 2 hrs.
 
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