Ericson 23 mark II general questions

Hello there.

New to the forum and hope I can get some feedback to my questions. Basically we are looking at downsizing to a 22 to 23 foot sailboat and deducted that the Ericson 23 Mark II with fixed keel is our first choice. I would appreciate any comments on the following:

How well does this boat point into the wind?
Is the deck core made of end grain balsa or something else?
Is the keel lead?
Keel to hull issues?
Common defects or suggested upgrades?
Performance of the tall mast version?

Cheers

Jocelyn

It might help us put any replies in context if you could tell us what boat you are downsizing from, and why, and where you are planning on sailing your boat.

I note that you posted your address as Alberta - - I used to live there and sailed a 22 foot Southcoast and a 23 foot San Juan on Lake Wabamun near Edmonton for many years before moving to the coast and discovering Ericsons.

I still miss that San Juan--it was a fast, well built boat, ideal for lake sailing.

Frank

E23 ii

Jocelyn:

Wecome to the club.
The deck of the 23 II is endgrain balsa,
The keel is encapsulated lead, part of the hull layup. Not bolted on as some other manufacturers did.
Sugested upgrade, midships cleat. Port & Stbd.
Bob
ERY23359M76I

Ericson built an expensive "small yacht" for its era. The keel is an example - lead is a lot more dense than the cast iron commonly used in small Cal's and Columbia's. The same ballast # takes up approx 30% less volume in lead. This gives that boat a thinner keel profile and less drag.

Basically, EY was building the smallest version of a line of boats intended for off shore racing and cruising. Another example was their use of a hull-to-deck join bonded together on the inside with roving. No stapled flanges or "coffee can" hull joint like the less expensive boats.
Decades later any boat from that age will need to have systems rebuilt and decks carefully checked for moisture... but it is really good to have strong design and build quality underlying it all.

Regards,
Loren

Thanks everyone, your feedback is much appreciated. I do like what I am reading.

To get back to Frank above, sure is a small world !!!

Yes we live in Leduc Alberta and do sail out of Sunshine Bay Yacht Club on lake Wabamum. In 2009 we purchased a 1985 Aloha 8.2 from a boat yard in Minnesota and trucked it back home. Restored it and much enjoyed but since the kids are on their own, doing young people’s things, and my wife is just not as keen about sailing as she used to be so it’s time for some change.

Basically the next boat will primarily be for "I", giving me the option of trailering to different locations (our Aloha need to be craned in and out). I am doing my homework looking for a smaller boat that will still give me good all-around sailing characteristic and be well-constructed. It will be used primarily for day sailing but still want it to be big enough for 2 people to go for short cruises.

Given what I could find about the Ericson 23 Mark II, I do like the characteristics which includes a fin keel, external rudder and tall mast versions. I work in aircraft maintenance so boat upgrades and /or repairs is just fine with me and will definitely consider sailboat in need of some TLC.

Again, thanks to all of you for the feedback.

Cheers

Given your needs, you still might want to consider a San Juan 23 swing keel, which is a good sailboat, and easier to trailer than a swing keel. There are several on that lake as I recall. Build quality is probably similar to Ericson. I had the fin keel model and loved it, but the swing keel is easier to haul/trailer.

Frank

Ericson 23 MkII, Swing Keel

Frank Langer said:

Given your needs, you still might want to consider a San Juan 23 swing keel, which is a good sailboat, and easier to trailer than a swing keel. There are several on that lake as I recall. Build quality is probably similar to Ericson. I had the fin keel model and loved it, but the swing keel is easier to haul/trailer.

Frank

Click to expand...

All that said, I happen to have an Ericson 23 Mk2 swing keel that I brought down from the northwest a few years ago. I last took it out in 2012 in 25kt winds an had a great sail. The only reason I would consider selling it is that we also have an Ericson 25 swing keel that we use regularly so the other one sits. The 23 was previously owned by the Sail Explorer Scouts so it came with a full assortment of sails, new lines, etc. and is in very fine shape. My intention was to downsize because it is a lot easier to tow than the 25 by a couple of thousand lbs, so the 25 stays at the lake. The last thing we did was have all the cushions reupholstered and they are still unused. I also picked up a roller-furler with a new 120 jib and they are still in the box. I'm in the Las Vegas area, if you're interested.

steve
s/v Old Navy

It's just down the highway

According to one mapping application, you guys can connect by driving less than 22 hours either way. Winter might change that calculation... a bit.
Or meet halfway and transfer the trailer from one rig to the other!


First phrase I thought of when reading this thread was "Road Trip!"
(and wear a toga)

Cheers,
Loren

Thanks Steve, I will keep that in mind.

As for you Frank, again it is a small world. Actually your previous SJ 23 with fin is at our club and I attempted to swap that boat with ours. The couple that owns it spend most of their weekend at the lake and they could use the extra accommodation our Aloha offers. Unfortunately, they have no plans to let it go for the next few years.

I like the lines of the SJ23s and the swing keel version is readily available at very reasonable prices but I am leaning towards fixed keel boats if I can help it. I know that they are a pain at the ramp but a fixed fin has other benefits. As you are probably well aware, it is all a matter of compromises at the end of the day.

Yes, that San Juan 23 was a great little boat for lake sailing.

Good luck with your eventual decision!
Frank

Hey Frank,

Interesting that you sailed a San Juan 23. I have a San Juan 26 in the yard near the garage that I bought as a shell and redesigned everything on it. It's the big sister to the 23. Easy boat to trailer. Mine has never had bottom paint. Might send you the link on the building of Ghost.

It might be hard to find a 23 or 26 as I have not seen many for sale.

Jocelyn, Any of these choices would do a good job for you as long as you stay away from something like a Venture (zero build quality). Our Commodore just bought a Cape Dory Typhoon. Wonderful little boat around here. Not fast but it will bring him home when he foolishly goes out when he shouldn't. The merits and negatives of keels, keel center boards, swing keels, centerboards, and dagger boards can be debated endlessly. My choice was fixed ballast with basically unweighted centerboard. I didn't want 2000lbs of ballast swinging around on a pivot while I was offshore (San Francisco area). The fixed ballast was foremost in importance. I got a boat that I trailered everywhere with ease. That ease came after redesigning both the boat's mast raising setup and the trailer's bunking and winching systems. Very few boats or trailers come with well thought out launching systems. Ghost took 3 1/2 hours to launch on the first try. On the third try, the tangs snapped of on the pivot and the mast went over the side. :0 Really bad design on both the boat and trailer manufacturers parts. A total redesign of both the mast raising system and the trailer got the time for arrival at ramp to splash down to 35 minutes with two experienced people and 45 minutes while alone. Not bad for a fully set up 26 footer.

I would go with the little fin keeler if I were going to keep the boat in the water for a season then pull it for the winter. The fin keel preforms best of all the choices and is not all that hard to pull out of the water at the end of the season. It is more hassle than the others. The best choices for more regular pull outs are the swing keel and keel-centerboard setups. They give lower ballast with the ease of trailering that less draught gives you. The centerboard only is much less stable and the daggerboard is a disaster if you ground. The keel-centerboard and fin keel have the pluses of no centerboard case intruding in the cabin.

You are lake sailing so you don't have the concerns I had about getting knocked down off shore by a large wave and having 2000lbs if keel swinging inboard.

Rae Ann and I are both Canadians originally. Rae Ann is from the Edmonton area and I'm from Vancouver. We are now Stateside but only 9 miles from the border and 20 miles from Victoria. If you get out this way. Give us a call.

That little Ericson looks good.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

I agree with your comments. I do sail with a friend that owns a Precision 21. It is a nice little boat. They do sail well and feel it is quite capable. Just to make it clear for anyone reading this tread, I do not think that centerboard boats are any less than a fixed keel boat. Far from it. In my case, the fixed keel version is my preference and I am willing to put up with more inconvenience at the ramp vs the added benefits we would get. A well set up trailer, low to the ground and a good mast raising system would go a long way to make launch and retrieval more manageable.

A quick look on the internet showed me that there are few of those 23s on the market but I have time on my side. Somebody next month will be flying from Yellowknife to basically confirm my advertisement and shake hand on the deal. The catch is that they want to pick up the boat in the spring. So will see. I really do not want to own two boats so there is time to browse.

I almost enjoy working on boats as much as sailing so any boats coming up with the right options will be considered. Our Aloha was sitting in that boat yard for almost 10 years. The hull was in sound condition but cosmetically very poor following an attempt from the previous owner to paint her. I took this basket case and brought her back to life. I included a link to the add so that you can see what she looks like. The cabin sole is actually ¼ inch Brazilian Mahogany that I milled (from high grade unfinished house flooring) and scarfed as solid flooring strips. The works is sealed with penetrating epoxy and varnished. Quite proud of the results and it looks as good as you see on the picture. The compass rose is also real wood veneer. http://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/edm...c=topAdSearch&enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Thanks for your invitation to stop if we are in your area. The same for you guys if you come for a visit to Edmonton.

Hi Jocelyn,

I don't know anything about this boat but just saw it on the San Francisco Craigslist. It is listed as a Mk2 but looking the photo I think it is a Mk1 - it would have to be a fixed keel;

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/5791529697.html

how do you raise the mast on the 23-2? I downloaded the brochure and mast raising books from this website. But it is still sorta confusing. I live in the dalles Oregon want to use for the Columbia river

Hello Blue-heron, I have owned my 23-2 for almost a decade in the Portland area and have not yet stepped the mast. I would like to learn how and didn't realize there is a brochure on this site with some details. Thank you for that information and I hope all went well with your mast raising.