Pulling trigger on E28+--Sail Recommendations

I have decided my sweet little E23 is no longer big enough. Owning her has sold me on Ericsons, so I'm looking at a very nice 1984 E28+. I have a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week. I do have a few concerns. One is, I recently went on a web site that discussed best sailboats under 30 feet; Ericson was not mentioned once. C&C, Hunter, Catalina were all mentioned. In my humble opinion, Ericsons are better constructed than Catalinas, probably better than Hunters and comparable to C&C. I'm really not concerned about construction quality with any Ericson. But what about sailing characteristics? Does an E28+ have as good sailing/performance characteristics as Hunters or C&C? Is an E28+ sea kindly for a 28.5 footer compared to Hunter or C&C? Will an E28+ get you from San Diego to Catalina and back in a happy state of mind if the seas are a little rough, or will your crew be ready to take a helicopter ride back to the safety of land? Also, is an E28+ fast enough (with a decent skipper) to win a beer can race here and there? I seriously wonder why Ericsons rarely enter the conversation on which boat to buy other than on this forum. Before I take the leap on this E28+, are there better boats to consider? Also, if anyone is interested in buying a nice little 1968 E23, let me know.

E28+

Phil Rushing said:

I have decided my sweet little E23 is no longer big enough. Owning her has sold me on Ericsons, so I'm looking at a very nice 1984 E28+. I have a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week. I do have a few concerns. One is, I recently went on a web site that discussed best sailboats under 30 feet; Ericson was not mentioned once. C&C, Hunter, Catalina were all mentioned. In my humble opinion, Ericsons are better constructed than Catalinas, probably better than Hunters and comparable to C&C. I'm really not concerned about construction quality with any Ericson. But what about sailing characteristics? Does an E28+ have as good sailing/performance characteristics as Hunters or C&C? Is an E28+ sea kindly for a 28.5 footer compared to Hunter or C&C? Will an E28+ get you from San Diego to Catalina and back in a happy state of mind if the seas are a little rough, or will your crew be ready to take a helicopter ride back to the safety of land? Also, is an E28+ fast enough (with a decent skipper) to win a beer can race here and there? I seriously wonder why Ericsons rarely enter the conversation on which boat to buy other than on this forum. Before I take the leap on this E28+, are there better boats to consider? Also, if anyone is interested in buying a nice little 1968 E23, let me know.

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We have a E28+ here on Saturna Island ( Southern Gulf Islands ). We made an extended cruise to the Great Bear Rainforest this summer. ( 3 1/2 months )
No problems with the boat and we hit 10.5knots on beam reaches several times and spent several hours at 7.5 knots wing on wing.( G.P.S. speed ) I think she'll hold her own with anything in her size range.
Mike and Bev on "RUCKUS"

Mike Davis said:

We have a E28+ here on Saturna Island ( Southern Gulf Islands ). We made an extended cruise to the Great Bear Rainforest this summer. ( 3 1/2 months )
No problems with the boat and we hit 10.5knots on beam reaches several times and spent several hours at 7.5 knots wing on wing.( G.P.S. speed ) I think she'll hold her own with anything in her size range.
Mike and Bev on "RUCKUS"

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Mike and Bev, That is a very impressive cruise! Its good to hear that your E28+ performed so well. Must have been quite exhilarating to hit 10.5 knots! I'm fairly certain I will move forward with the acquisition of this boat, especially after reading how well yours' performed. I have a sea trial and survey on this Wednesday, 9/21; we'll see how it goes. Visually she looks great, but may need new sails. The engine only has 750 hours; assume it must be a rebuild with that few hours, but there could be some issues there. The standing rigging looks like it may be original so that could be another issue. Just have to wait and see what the surveyor has to say. I've had a number of boats over the years, but this one is undoubtedly my dream boat - I can hardly wait! Thanks so much for your response. And by the way, you live in (or sail out of) an incredibly beautiful place. I've never been there, but I've read about it and have seen some beautiful pictures. Some day I'll get up there and see it first hand. Fair winds....

Phil Rushing said:

I have decided my sweet little E23 is no longer big enough. Owning her has sold me on Ericsons, so I'm looking at a very nice 1984 E28+. I have a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week. I do have a few concerns. One is, I recently went on a web site that discussed best sailboats under 30 feet; Ericson was not mentioned once. C&C, Hunter, Catalina were all mentioned. In my humble opinion, Ericsons are better constructed than Catalinas, probably better than Hunters and comparable to C&C. I'm really not concerned about construction quality with any Ericson. But what about sailing characteristics? Does an E28+ have as good sailing/performance characteristics as Hunters or C&C? Is an E28+ sea kindly for a 28.5 footer compared to Hunter or C&C? Will an E28+ get you from San Diego to Catalina and back in a happy state of mind if the seas are a little rough, or will your crew be ready to take a helicopter ride back to the safety of land? Also, is an E28+ fast enough (with a decent skipper) to win a beer can race here and there? I seriously wonder why Ericsons rarely enter the conversation on which boat to buy other than on this forum. Before I take the leap on this E28+, are there better boats to consider? Also, if anyone is interested in buying a nice little 1968 E23, let me know.

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Looking at general engineering and build quality, Hunter would be (charitably) at the bottom, Catalina well above it, and C&C at the upper end with Ericson, Tartan, C&C, and Sabre (to name a few of the better known ones).
The Ericson's in the 80's are a family of designs, from the 26 to the 38. Sea kindly hulls and powerful sail plans. As NA Ted Brewer has said about similar good boats, they were designed "from the outside in rather than the other way around". i.e. opposite of H__ter where the interior apartment/condo was laid out and then a sailing-appearance outside was stretched around it.

As for "mention", other than three EY models that remained in limited production at PSC, Ericson stopped building boats in (approx) late 1990. There are probably sailors participating in this bbs that were born more recently...

Magazines run ads from the surviving boat building companies, some only a corporate name or shell that has been re-sold several times since the late 80's, and newer sailors notice those ads and boats.

On the other hand, sailboats were never going to be a "digital" product, and no matter how ungainly and awkward-appearing the current designs are, the sea and wind forces they must navigate have never changed...


Cheers,
Loren

Loren, I'll have to take exception with your rating Hunter at the dead bottom of the boatbuilding heap. I have been attempting to help a friend ready his McGregor 26 for some cruising. I've tried to talk him out of this boat into anything else but he is insistent. I can't imagine crossing the Straights of Juan De Fuca in this piece of junk. I can see the value of Life Insurance here. Here at Port Angeles we are in the Straights as soon as we clear the breakwater buoy. The first thing noted is that McGregor did not supply a bilge pump of any kind! This one still doesn't have one. The owner has added a whole bunch of electronics and was attempting to add a couple of group 24 batteries. The battery "compartment" wouldn't fit them. The bottom of the "compartment" is the hull. The top is the cabin liner. The middle is the wide open bilge. The previous batteries were not strapped down. The battery primary wires are #6 AWG and unfused. The main panel had three breakers. Wow! That Hunter looks absolutely divine! Eliminate the McGregor and Loren, you're dead right on. That 28+ looks very good.

"friends don't let friends buy Mac-26s..." :nerd:

Unfortunately, he already owned it when met him and he still thinks it is the best boat out there so I guess there is no hope. I'm just trying to keep him alive. Difficult when I won't cross the Straights on his boat. :0

supersailor said:

Unfortunately, he already owned it when met him and he still thinks it is the best boat out there so I guess there is no hope. I'm just trying to keep him alive. Difficult when I won't cross the Straights on his boat. :0

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Is the M26 your friend's first sailboat? I have a friend who's an old experienced sailor now living in California. When he was a young man with no experience or knowledge of sailing he bought a used Venture 22 and regularly single handed it in the Straights of Juan De Fuca. He laughs about it now but considers himself lucky to have survived. He didn't understand that while sailing to weather in heavy seas the hull is not supposed to oil-can and seawater is not supposed to squirt into the interior through the hull/deck joint!

Captain Don
Gitana, E26

Engine issues

Phil Rushing said:

Mike and Bev, That is a very impressive cruise! Its good to hear that your E28+ performed so well. Must have been quite exhilarating to hit 10.5 knots! I'm fairly certain I will move forward with the acquisition of this boat, especially after reading how well yours' performed. I have a sea trial and survey on this Wednesday, 9/21; we'll see how it goes. Visually she looks great, but may need new sails. The engine only has 750 hours; assume it must be a rebuild with that few hours, but there could be some issues there. The standing rigging looks like it may be original so that could be another issue. Just have to wait and see what the surveyor has to say. I've had a number of boats over the years, but this one is undoubtedly my dream boat - I can hardly wait! Thanks so much for your response. And by the way, you live in (or sail out of) an incredibly beautiful place. I've never been there, but I've read about it and have seen some beautiful pictures. Some day I'll get up there and see it first hand. Fair winds....

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Phil
When we bought RUCKUS the engine was U/S so I got it at a good price. A new engine is an arm and a leg but a rebuild is only an arm. Not feeling I could afford either I down loaded the manual from the internet and borrowed a good torque wrench. Total cost to rebuild was about $500 and a few hours of time. I removed the engine , home to my garage and set to work. It now has just over 600hrs and runs like a clock. I do have some mechanical knowledge but had never done an engine before. Mine is a Universal 5411 , I would guess yours will be the same.
Mike

Capt Don, the Mac 22 is a great boat compared to the 26 which has a 60 horse outboard hanging on the back. On my first sail on it, we snapped a spreader in under 15 knots of wind. Damned near lost the mast. Only a very quick tack saved it. When he contacted McGregor about it, he got a laugh with the comment "It happens all the time!" The rigging is lighter than the rigging on another friends Catalina 16. I'm wondering if McGregor went out of business to avoid the liability claims. They were certainly making money. There is probably a risk factor with any 22 crossing the Straights on a regular basis. A Mac is in much greater danger. I would love to see him in your E-26.

Mike Davis said:

Phil
When we bought RUCKUS the engine was U/S so I got it at a good price. A new engine is an arm and a leg but a rebuild is only an arm. Not feeling I could afford either I down loaded the manual from the internet and borrowed a good torque wrench. Total cost to rebuild was about $500 and a few hours of time. I removed the engine , home to my garage and set to work. It now has just over 600hrs and runs like a clock. I do have some mechanical knowledge but had never done an engine before. Mine is a Universal 5411 , I would guess yours will be the same.
Mike

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Mike,
The seller claims that the engine runs "great" so we'll see. It looks clean enough, but some of the hoses looked to be original - not sure. Again, I'll just have to wait and see what the surveyor says, but if it does need a rebuild I wouldn't feel confident enough in my mechanical abilities to do it myself. I'm thinking I could restructure my original offer and reduce it by whatever an arm and a leg comes to. Thanks again.
Phil

Own an E28+

Bought mine one year ago for under $20k. The fractional rig is beautifully balanced with no weather helm. I single handle mostly on Puget Sound. Had some gel coat blisters which were easily fixed, just as well could have left them alone. I Put a kicker motor on for peace of mind in this Puget environment but the Universal runs great albeit slow and with a mean Port helm prop wash. i have about one square foot of deck delamination near the rear hatch to inject. Absolutely no signs of structural problems. The mast is original. A ten foot inflatable fits on the forward deck.
People love the wood interior. For me it was love at first sight and is still so.

supersailor said:

Capt Don, the Mac 22 is a great boat compared to the 26 which has a 60 horse outboard hanging on the back. On my first sail on it, we snapped a spreader in under 15 knots of wind. Damned near lost the mast. Only a very quick tack saved it. When he contacted McGregor about it, he got a laugh with the comment "It happens all the time!" The rigging is lighter than the rigging on another friends Catalina 16. I'm wondering if McGregor went out of business to avoid the liability claims. They were certainly making money. There is probably a risk factor with any 22 crossing the Straights on a regular basis. A Mac is in much greater danger. I would love to see him in your E-26.

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Supersailor, I didn't mean to equate a Venture 22 with a MacGregor 26 and I agree with your assessment. Around here a common joke is that someone new to boating buys a M26 and then if they get interested in sailing they sell the M26 and buy a sailboat. I don't recall seeing a M26 moving through the sea under sail alone; they've always got the motor running, sometimes with the sail up, but usually under bare poles.


Captain Don
Gitana, E26

Phil Rushing said:

I have decided my sweet little E23 is no longer big enough. Owning her has sold me on Ericsons, so I'm looking at a very nice 1984 E28+. I have a sea trial and survey scheduled for next week. I do have a few concerns. One is, I recently went on a web site that discussed best sailboats under 30 feet; Ericson was not mentioned once. C&C, Hunter, Catalina were all mentioned. In my humble opinion, Ericsons are better constructed than Catalinas, probably better than Hunters and comparable to C&C. I'm really not concerned about construction quality with any Ericson. But what about sailing characteristics? Does an E28+ have as good sailing/performance characteristics as Hunters or C&C? Is an E28+ sea kindly for a 28.5 footer compared to Hunter or C&C? Will an E28+ get you from San Diego to Catalina and back in a happy state of mind if the seas are a little rough, or will your crew be ready to take a helicopter ride back to the safety of land? Also, is an E28+ fast enough (with a decent skipper) to win a beer can race here and there? I seriously wonder why Ericsons rarely enter the conversation on which boat to buy other than on this forum. Before I take the leap on this E28+, are there better boats to consider? Also, if anyone is interested in buying a nice little 1968 E23, let me know.

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Hi Phil
How did the survey go? Did you buy the boat?
Mike

E 28+

Hi Phil
Just noticed your post. We have sailed a E28+ for 35 years (4 months a season).
We like it a lot. Don't know if yours is set up like ours but take a second look at the VBerth dimensions. Very long vberth and a major reason why we bought in 81. Partied on Hunters and they party great! Could sail better but they made it thru the recession(s).
Good luck!
Pat
1981 E28+ Universal 5411

1985 e 28.5

Phil,
Have sailed my 28-5 for 17 years on the Tampa Bay. This is a excellent sail boat. Fractional rig with big jenny allows me to sail 80% of the time with just the jenny and have hit 7.5 knots with just the jenny on a broad reach.
Be sure to check the fresh water recirculation pump if it is located under the intake manifold of the 5411 if it is fresh water cooled. Weakest part of that engine and hard to change impellor on but don't let that worry you or stop you. These Sherwood's can be rebuilt.
10-6 beam and 6-2 head room gives you the most boat you will ever find in a boat under 30 foot.
I have done all the work on my boat and engine myself and would be happy to help in any way with info and advice.
Best,
Al

Yes!! I bought the boat! Thanks to Mike and everyone else for your responses and interest. Its been said many times, but I'll say it again: this is a GREAT forum! The boat I'm referring to is the 1984 E28+ I've been talking about. Ended up paying $14,500, which I think is a great price. She needs new sails, but other than that the survey found no significant issues. The interior is like brand new with all wood freshly varnished and it looks fantastic. The little diesel runs great and only has 705 hours on it. The exterior is not bad, just a dull gel coat that should clean up nicely. All canvas is serviceable but looks worn. I'm thinking this is a lot of boat for the money. I'm super excited!! Can't wait to get her out for a sail, but it'll be a week or two due to other commitments. I'll post some pics when time permits. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good sailmaker?

Al,
I like what you have to say about your E28. I can't wait to get mine out! I believe my head sail is only a 113 or so. What size is yours? I was told that, with a fractional rig, a larger headsail was not necessary. I am getting new sails, and not sure what size genny to get. I only have enough funds at this time to get a new main and one head sail. Recommendation? I may take you up on advice when it comes time to change the impeller. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, but have never worked on a diesel in a boat before. Right now she appears to be pumping plenty of water and there were no issues with over heating during the survey. It is fresh water cooled. I'm not quite sure what you said to check on the fresh water pump, or what and how to watch for. The engine at full throttle was at 2700 rpm, and should be 3,000, but the surveyor seemed to think this was insignificant.
Thanks again,
Phil

Phil's new boat

Phil Rushing said:

Al,
I like what you have to say about your E28. I can't wait to get mine out! I believe my head sail is only a 113 or so. What size is yours? I was told that, with a fractional rig, a larger headsail was not necessary. I am getting new sails, and not sure what size genny to get. I only have enough funds at this time to get a new main and one head sail. Recommendation? I may take you up on advice when it comes time to change the impeller. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, but have never worked on a diesel in a boat before. Right now she appears to be pumping plenty of water and there were no issues with over heating during the survey. It is fresh water cooled. I'm not quite sure what you said to check on the fresh water pump, or what and how to watch for. The engine at full throttle was at 2700 rpm, and should be 3,000, but the surveyor seemed to think this was insignificant.
Thanks again,
Phil

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Hi Phil
Congratulations on your new boat! Hope you enjoy it as much as we do ours. I had North Sails make me a new main when I bought. The jenny should last a couple of more years I think. Any new one we get will be slightly smaller ( currently 120 ). I would shorten it about a foot so that I can see under it to leeward and so that it doesn't get hung-up on the kayak racks. ( I'm getting too old to leap about as I once did).
Mike

I tend to listen to sailmakers regarding size and cut. Although they have a lot of experience with what actually works, they are also used to sailors coming on strong with ideas, and so may keep quiet, and, being in business, are happy to recommend exotic materials and so on.

But if you explain your sailing goals and budget usually they steer you well.

The important thing is that the sailmaker do the measuring. I feel strongly that no owner should measure his own boat, which leaves out any maker who can't come to the boat. Most sails are made overseas and errors are common. when the local rep measures, if the sail don't fit they must acquit.

I chose heavy Dacron this time, which is tougher and lasts longer even though it doesn't retain its shape over time as well as "tape drive" and newer materials (which however deteriorate faster).

But for ordinary sailing--family and some light racing--lighter Dacron is easier to handle and will be excellent for five years or so before its decline.

San Diego has many good sailmakers, and I would ask around about who is good for people like us (forget specialists fro the racing crowd). The sailmaker should be a relationship as well as a purchase.

Up here, Oliver McCann at UK Sails in MDR has such a reputation, and might have somebody to recommend down your way.