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Ericson 29 versus Ericson 30 +

Graham Young

Junior Member
Hello,

I am new to this forum and I am considering purchasing an Ericson. I'm looking at shallow draft versions of the Ericson 30 + and the Ericson 29. I'm hoping that owners of each model tell me the pros and cons of the boats and, if possible, a comparison of the two, what they would prefer and why. I know the draft of the E29 is 4'6" and the shallow draft on the E30+ is 4', so not much difference there. What else should I consider between these two models?

Thanks,

Graham
 

PDX

Member III
It would be helpful if you indicated the boat's intended use. The reason I ask is the boats seem quite different to my eye. If you're looking for a shallow draft I assume you're not interested in racing?
 

Graham Young

Junior Member
It would be helpful if you indicated the boat's intended use. The reason I ask is the boats seem quite different to my eye. If you're looking for a shallow draft I assume you're not interested in racing?


No, I'm not interested in racing at all. At this point, most of my time would be day sailing with some weekend cruising. My hope is that in the not too distant future there may be some more extended cruising, i.e. 1-2 weeks at a time. While the day sailing does not require a shoal draft, the cruising does as some of the rivers and harbors on Lake Erie are shallow.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Racing, Cruising, Comparing

It's worth noting that draft has nothing to do with "racing" per se. Racing happens when you enter a race. Given that most racing is scored by handicap, as long as you sail your own particular boat as efficiently as possible and travel the designated course in the most efficient manner, you will be in contention for a trophy. Yep, it's about that simple.... of course there are worlds of skills and knowledges to hone to perform those simple concepts well.
:rolleyes:

If your sailing area is shoal, that's an important consideration. Some places in the SE USA are shallow enough that any boat drafting over 3 or 4 feet is quite limited in where they can go. ( A friend of ours in Florida sails a big catamaran for that reason.)

Up here in the NW we are generally lucky in having oodles of deep water to sail in -- altho it's better if you do not draft over about 6 feet or so for easy access to some harbors and inlets.

The E-29 and E-30+ are really from different design era's. Quite different rig geometry. Some folks prefer the internal ballast of the 29, and I would surmise that others appreciate the newer rudder profile on the later 30+. You need to walk around inside both and lay down in the bunks and see which one "speaks" to you. :)

Are there links to post for both boats if you have found some for sale?

Anyhow, keep us up to date on your shopping and bring your questions. We all got this far with help from friends, some we've met and some we know only through this site.
Regards,
Loren
:egrin:
 
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fool

Member III
It's worth noting that draft has nothing to do with "racing" per se. Racing happens when you enter a race. Given that most racing is scored by handicap, as long as you sail your own particular boat as efficiently as possible and travel the designated course in the most efficient manner, you will be in contention for a trophy. Yep, it's about that simple....

<snip>

Regards,
Loren
:egrin:

A good friend of mine, Capt. Billy Butler used to say "Whenever two boats are going in the same direction the race is on!"

He also used to say "Sailboats are better than power boats because you can always sail when you run out of gas, but you can't always sail when you run out of ice..."

Non sequitur I know, apologies for the distraction. Sail on, (with ice...) </snip>:egrin:
 

Graham Young

Junior Member
The E-29 and E-30+ are really from different design era's. Quite different rig geometry. Some folks prefer the internal ballast of the 29, and I would surmise that others appreciate the newer rudder profile on the later 30+. You need to walk around inside both and lay down in the bunks and see which one "speaks" to you. :)

Are there links to post for both boats if you have found some for sale?

Anyhow, keep us up to date on your shopping and bring your questions. We all got this far with help from friends, some we've met and some we know only through this site.
Regards,
Loren
:egrin:


Loren,

Thank you for your response. As to your point about draft and racing, agreed. Just the same, I have no interest in racing whether my draft if 7 feet or 3 feet. Although fool's point about two sailboats headed in the same direction may cause me to oblige :)

Here are the links to the boats I have been eyeing:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Ericson-30-Plus-2972348/Chicago/IL/United-States#.V8Oj9_krJD8



http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1975/Ericson-29-2983285/Georgian-Bay/Canada#.V8OkEvkrJD8


Thanks,


Graham
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My oh my!
Both nice looking, but gotta say that the 29 is really well equipped. Diesel engine too.

Not an easy choice....
But that's actually a good thing. :)

Be interesting to hear about a personal inspection.

Loren
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
We have a a 1984 E30+ with the full keel and love this boat. Good in light and heavy air and well built. Only complaint may be a shortage of storage space. Would highly recommend this boat.
Frank
 

Graham Young

Junior Member
My oh my!
Both nice looking, but gotta say that the 29 is really well equipped. Diesel engine too.

Not an easy choice....
But that's actually a good thing. :)

Be interesting to hear about a personal inspection.

Loren


Yes, I agree. I'm very intrigued by the 29 even though it is a fair bit older. As you say, it has been repowered and appears set-up well.

You were mentioning earlier about the boats being quite different in rig geometry. I know the 30+ is a fractional and the 29 a masthead sloop. The keels are different as well. Do you have any information on the different sailing qualities of the two?
 

Graham Young

Junior Member
We have a a 1984 E30+ with the full keel and love this boat. Good in light and heavy air and well built. Only complaint may be a shortage of storage space. Would highly recommend this boat.
Frank


Hi Frank. Thanks for the response. You mentioned the boat being short on storage. Would you say that is problematic for a couple with no kids cruising for say 1-2 weeks? Or is it a problem if your having more than 2 people aboard for a cruise? I know some of this is subjective as to how much "stuff" one needs to take with them, but I'm just trying to get a general idea from someone who has cruised the boat.
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Graham,

Welcome to the website. My initial response would be to go with the E30+ but that E29 as Loren mentioned is really well equipped. One thing that jumped out at me regarding the 29 is that it was painted (Awlgrip) 24 years ago. Might want to check how that is holding up. Good luck!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
As Loren says, mostly it's what makes you smile.

But for me, ten years would probably make the difference. Hatches, sole, cushions and so on.
 

woolamaloo

Member III
Hi Frank. Thanks for the response. You mentioned the boat being short on storage. Would you say that is problematic for a couple with no kids cruising for say 1-2 weeks? Or is it a problem if your having more than 2 people aboard for a cruise? I know some of this is subjective as to how much "stuff" one needs to take with them, but I'm just trying to get a general idea from someone who has cruised the boat.

Welcome Graham. I love my 30+ and I'm also on Lake Erie. Storage is the most puzzling thing for me about my boat. I think there's ample room for food and supplies. I just don't know what to do with my clothes. The hanging locker is filled with my foulies and a handful of collared shirts and khakis. On extended cruises, I take about 10-12 days of clothes. I've taken to keeping clean clothes in a laundry basket that I keep in the v-berth during the day. I move it out into the salon right before I crawl into my berth for the night. Dirty clothes stay in a basket that resides in the starboard quarterberth. When I start trying to decide which t-shirt is "less dirty" I'll start looking for a marina with a coin-operated laundry.

The trade for the lack of storage space seem to be a really nice salon with several comfortable places to sit. I've had eight people down below drinking wine while waiting for a squall to pass at Cedar Point. It was a fun - and humid - memory.

The schematics of the 29 look a little beamier in the stern than the 30+ but I would imagine that the 29 would have similar storage issues. My guess for the best solution to the storage space issue would be a bigger boat.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
initial response would be to go with the ... really well equipped.

I'll offer a mildly contra-view.

"really well equipped" is only a value to you, as a buyer, if the equipment consists of things you would use and would add or upgrade if the boat didn't come with them.

If, for example, a boat I was looking at came with a big stainless-steel radar arch with built-in davits and hard dodger/bimini... that would be a value *if* I wabted and/or would have added those things.

The contra-view is that if you *don't* want those things, at best they are going to be an issue in negotiating price, and... at worst, they may represent extra work in removing/undoing them in order to get the boat the way *you* want it to be to set up for the kind of sailing you do.

When I was looking at boats last year, I had three ways of considering "extras":
-- stuff I want, and which adds value to the boat for *me* (recent sails, barrier coat, chartplotter, roller furling...)
-- stuff I don't care about one way or the other (cabin heater, refrigeration, folding prop...)
-- stuff I *don't* want, and would spend time/money to un-do (hard dodger, instruments mounted in bulkhead, flat-screen TV, air conditioning, radar arch...)


Edited to add:... and all of that, in my opinion, comes after the question of "is it the right boat for you?". The first priority is to figure out what kind of boat suits your style and interests. How big? what kind of performance? how important are creature comforts, headroom, storage? Are you going to be daysailing with kids or crossing oceans by yourself? Figure out those things first and use them as a baseline for deciding which boats to look at.

Once you've decided what kind(s) of boats would suit, then you can start evaluating candidates on the market. Does (a particular boat) fit your intended purposes? Is it structurally sound, with serviceable rigging, mechanical and other systems? Are there any huge issues (design, construction, damage, deferred maintenance) that could be a deal-breaker?

And once you've got a number of candidates that meet most or all your targeted criteria and priorities, *then* it is time - just Bruce's Opinion (tm) - to start comparing equipment lists. The equipment a given boat comes with works great as a tie-breaker between viable candidates, but probably shouldn't be a primary reason for choosing a particular boat.


$.02
Bruce
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Hard to compare without sailing both boats. I love my 29, but I'd guess that the 30+ would win on creature comforts and construction details.
The wide-open salon of the 29 is great, but once 4-inch mattresses are put in, the low side of that aft double becomes pretty much a coffin. And the V-berth isn't really a double for two adults. It becomes a single plus a wedge of unusable space. Maybe with the filler installed, two people can sleep kind of crossways, at the same angle, if one is short.

So with the low side Q-berth mattress removed, there ends up being a big "garage" under the cockpit. And the unusable angle of the V-berth can contain a hanging rod or shelves. I ended up jamming a boathook between the inner hand rails near the companionway to make a temporary hanging rod for wet foulies and wetsuits. But it's a head-banger - temporary use only.

Tankage might be an issue too. To go on any kind of trip that will involve motoring, I have to fill the cockpit with fuel cans.

I will say that 29 has some of the nicest modifications I've seen. Just yesterday, I was almost ready to add a bowsprit almost exactly like that, except that it would create problems with my marina. (There is interference between my anchor roller and jib furler - although the hight of the furler on that boat should eliminate interference anyway.)
 
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Graham Young

Junior Member
Welcome Graham. I love my 30+ and I'm also on Lake Erie. Storage is the most puzzling thing for me about my boat. I think there's ample room for food and supplies. I just don't know what to do with my clothes. The hanging locker is filled with my foulies and a handful of collared shirts and khakis. On extended cruises, I take about 10-12 days of clothes. I've taken to keeping clean clothes in a laundry basket that I keep in the v-berth during the day. I move it out into the salon right before I crawl into my berth for the night. Dirty clothes stay in a basket that resides in the starboard quarter berth. When I start trying to decide which t-shirt is "less dirty" I'll start looking for a marina with a coin-operated laundry.

The trade for the lack of storage space seem to be a really nice salon with several comfortable places to sit. I've had eight people down below drinking wine while waiting for a squall to pass at Cedar Point. It was a fun - and humid - memory.

The schematics of the 29 look a little beamier in the stern than the 30+ but I would imagine that the 29 would have similar storage issues. My guess for the best solution to the storage space issue would be a bigger boat.

Thanks for the welcome. My thought about clothes storage would be to take duffel bags and stuff them into the quarter berth for the clothes that don't need to be hung up in the locker. At this point, I don't really prefer a bigger boat:rolleyes:
 

Graham Young

Junior Member
Hard to compare without sailing both boats. I love my 29, but I'd guess that the 30+ would win on creature comforts and construction details.
The wide-open salon of the 29 is great, but once 4-inch mattresses are put in, the low side of that aft double becomes pretty much a coffin. And the V-berth isn't really a double for two adults. It becomes a single plus a wedge of unusable space. Maybe with the filler installed, two people can sleep kind of crossways, at the same angle, if one is short.

So with the low side Q-berth mattress removed, there ends up being a big "garage" under the cockpit. And the unusable angle of the V-berth can contain a hanging rod or shelves. I ended up jamming a boathook between the inner hand rails near the companionway to make a temporary hanging rod for wet foulies and wetsuits. But it's a head-banger - temporary use only.

Tankage might be an issue too. To go on any kind of trip that will involve motoring, I have to fill the cockpit with fuel cans.

I will say that 29 has some of the nicest modifications I've seen. Just yesterday, I was almost ready to add a bowsprit almost exactly like that, except that it would create problems with my marina. (There is interference between my anchor roller and jib furler - although the hight of the furler on that boat should eliminate interference anyway.)


An unusable V berth would be a deal breaker for me. My partner and I are not big people by any stretch (she is actually quite tiny), but we need to be able to sleep comfortably.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
More bunk measurements needed

The subjective observations in these well-meaning replies indicate that the site really needs to have both of these models represented in this thread:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?7721-Actual-Berth-Size

Get out your tape measures and send in some more real-world sizing!
It's not too hard to find some interior drawings on the 'net to copy and mark up.
Matter of fact attached are some rough drawings from "sailboat data".
Just print them out and put your measurements on them using the image application that likely came with your computer software. For our Mac I use the built-in Preview app.
Then re-save the files and add them to the berth size thread.

Thanks!

Loren
 

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