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E34 steering repairs

Teranodon

Member III
When I was sailing back to Friday Harbor from the Ericson rendezvous at Maple Bay, I noticed that the wheel was resisting me when turning to starboard, sometimes accompanied by a groaning/grinding noise. When I got to my slip I crawled into the quarterberth and dropped the cover under the pedestal. Surprise! There was a track of fine brass powder (photo). One of the sheaves was wedging itself against the big brass plate that it's mounted in, and the cable was rubbing its way around the sheave, sprinkling metal like fairy dust.


To work on the sheave means dropping the big plate, i.e., undoing the nuts on the four 1/2-inch bolts that hold the Edson pedestal. Second surprise: as soon as I got a socket on a nut and started turning, the bolt broke like a piece of rotten wood. Happened three times. What a place for mild steel fasteners!


Dropping the plate is tedious. Have to unlink the throttle and transmission cables, and the two wire ropes that go from the sheaves to the quadrant (#*$%! rusty wire rope clamps!). Plus some electrical wires. Anyway, the real shocker was discovering the source of the steering problem. One of the 3/8-inch brass pins that the sheaves rotate on was almost completely gone, as though it had been milled through (see photo, which shows the undamaged pin as well). Yikes! The sheave itself was undamaged - there is a hardened bushing in the center.


I replaced the offending item with a $4 stainless Clevis pin from Ace Hardware. So that’s fixed, but now I’m left with a serious challenge: replacing the 1/2-inch bolts that hold the pedestal. They simply won’t budge, and three of them are broken right under the deck. I left them sitting in a puddle of penetrating oil (photo) and am asking fellow Ericson owners: any advice on getting these bolts out? Do I have to resort to brute force (drilling and tapping the heads)? And why are the hex heads of the bolts buried in the base so that you can’t grab them? Please don’t tell me that they are screwed into the base. What a design!


Since I have the top of the pedestal off, I’m going to remove the chain and swaged wire steering ropes (there are a couple of broken strands). I will also try to fix the wheel brake. There is a missing washer so the brake doesn't work at all (I wonder what birdbrain left it that way). Unfortunately, the 1/4-20 screws that hold the plate for the brake jaws are frozen too, but that’s another matter.


So that’s my sad story. Has anyone else had a problem with these bolts? What’s a good way to proceed?


Stefan


P.S. I already know one moral to the story: keep that steering mechanism lubricated!


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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
If you can get at the underside of the pedestal, can you remove the nuts and washers and then drive the bolts upward with a large drift ("pin punch") ?
I can get under the aft part of the cockpit in our boat by removing a molded frp cover plate that's above the aft berth surface. Perhaps different for your model. (?)

There are several threads addressing steering maintenance.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6430-Steering-Problem
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...p-on-Yacht-specialties-pedestal&referrerid=28

And if you use Google, start with the word ericsonyachct.org and then add the words you need.

Loren
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Good Way, Maybe not

More than likely you will have to try to drive them out from below. They shouldn't be threaded into the base. They were likely sealed when installed, and now years of corrosion have "welded" things together. Does the pedestal move at all when you wiggle it?
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Drill and use an Easy-out from above. Should be no problem.

I think Christain can help, he had to rebuild his in HI.

Wow, that pin was ground to n o t h I n g !
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I don't know about driving them out. Ericson sometimes tapped fasteners into the cockpit sole. I would be more inclined to take a torch to the
bolts and heat it up. If you can't get a socket around the heads, what you might try is carefully cutting a slot in them, enough so a big screwdriver
blade will fit. My 2 cents.

Martin
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
And why are the hex heads of the bolts buried in the base

Is this Edson wheel steering? I have Yacht Specialties/Merriman, but your base is familiar from other recent threads. I have also wondered about the look of the bolt tops.

Anyhow, you need to remove the pedestal to work on it. Break the last bolt off, if that's necesary. Disconnect the chain and cables and take the pedestal home. Work on the frozen bolts there.

Everything--rusty cable clamps, sheave pins, busted bolts--needs to be returned to standard. If it's Edson, they can help find the parts.

This is a tedious job but pretty straightforward. Parts should not be substituted, since the unit is carefully designed and needs to stay that way.

If your setup is chain and wire on a quadrant, this will give some basic guidance:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?14133-Yacht-Specialties-Pedestal-Disassembly-with-Photos



 

Teranodon

Member III
Nasty aluminum bolts on my nice boat

Edson made these pedestal base bolts out of aluminum.

Aha! Yes! Now it makes sense. Aluminum, not "rotted steel". Maybe I can slice them off at deck level with a hacksaw blade, or something.

I really appreciate all of the good advice. Thanks, everyone.
 

Joliba

1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
Also, the sheaves are bronze, not brass. It may be wise to use the proper metal for the pin to avoid a metal mismatch and worse oxidation in the future.
While you have it all dismantled, it's a good opportunity to replace the throttle and shift cables, as well.
Mike
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Edson is known for having good product support, afaik. I think it would be worth a call to them.

I would think you can access those nuts & bolt shafts from below, then attack them as has been said. It is likely fine if you break off the 4th bolt. As far as the rusty wire rope clamps,don't even bother with them. Just cut the cable because you will need th replace it anyway.

Take pictures before you demo for future reference. In fact, try to post some pictures from what it looks like from below here on EY.org.
 

Teranodon

Member III
Repairs finished

Now that the repairs are finished, I’m reviving this thread to offer some advice to those who may need to do this in the future.

As has been pointed out, the pulleys, pins, and the pedestal backing plate are made of bronze, not brass. The base of the Edson pedestal is aluminum, as are the four 1/2-inch bolts that secure it to the deck.

The only way to remove the bolts on my boat was to drill them out, literally bit-by-bit. I think that they had been improperly installed: too much silicone, and with steel washers. To save money, I replaced them with home-made aluminum bolts (using threaded rod and nuts). Aluminum has only half the tensile strength of steel, but I found the dissimilar metals argument persuasive. I’ve had aluminum bolts gall in the past, so I used anti-sieze compound.

I spoke with the people at Edson and they were categorical: the original bronze sheave pins need to be replaced with stainless, dissimilar metals notwithstanding. I got some 3/8" Clevis pins at the hardware store and cut off the heads. Easy. Here is what I recommend to folks who may be worried about insidious pin wear: go into the quarterberth, remove the cover under the pedestal, grab each sheave in turn and see if there is any play. If yes, there is a problem that could really bite one day.

I ran my hand along the steering cables and noted some broken strands, so I decided to replace them. This is pretty straightforward, except that access to the quadrant is marginal, so skinned knuckles and multiple violations of the Third Commandment are in order. Here is a bit of retroactive advice (i.e., I wish I had done it this way): remove the cables by taking off the nuts/washers from the eyebolts that pass through the quadrant and provide tension to the cables. But first note how much of the eyebolt is protruding. Leave the wire clamps in place. Once the eyebolts/cables/chain assembly is off the boat, measure it carefully, and make up the new cables accordingly. You can lengthen/shorten the new cables slightly, so as to have a comfortable 1 1/2 inch (roughly) of eyebolt sticking out of the quadrant, for tension adjustment. And use a hand mirror to see what you are doing. Don’t forget to lubricate everything before putting it back together.

Oh - and don't forget to cross the cables inside the pedestal! There's a story there....
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I don't know why you would worry about dissimilar metals.

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