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89' E34 I'll be going to see this week, curious what others think.

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
I bought an Ericson 34 1987 last week. So far I love it. Mine was a great value and was on the west coast. I look forward to many years of use. Very comfortable to sail. Mine was updated in the early 90's with new electronics and everything works. I am really excited to start this chapter of my boating career.

Awesome!

Welcome to the greatest owners group outside of the NFL...lol!:)
 

ofshore74

Member III
Personal Inspection of the E34-2 Today (photos and video)

Today I crossed the border to go look at the E34 up close, the border guard wanted to know why I was only looking and not buying, told him I might be back. It's a nice boat and I'm thinking of making an offer but there are a few red flags and wanted to run it by the experts here first, some of these might be standard fare for E34 owners, not sure:

High moisture readings around the anchor locker:
Brought a moisture meter to check the deck. As others mentioned here the anchor locker typically has damage. In the right corner has cracked at the deck letting water get into the core - there are photos with readings in the link below. One section was off the charts I imagine it's about 12" round, but also on the left and right of the anchor locker there were some higher readings. Also found a pinhole mid-starboard side deck, needs repaired as it let water into the core about 4" round. Otherwise mast was good -- did notice a couple of hairline cracks fore and starboard side, but no moisture.
Any idea about cost on this?

Helm flexes at the cockpit deck:
Took some video to demonstrate in the link below, basically if I grab the hand-hold at the top of the helm and push fore and aft, it flexes the fiberglass cockpit sole. Has anyone seen this before? Feels like maybe a reinforcement is needed there, but I'm not sure. Noticed they added another Lumar window to the double birth below the cockpit seat to port, making it three, not sure if that compromised the cockpit structure? Obviously I would want to be able crawl under the cockpit (very limited space maybe thru the locker?) and reinforce it if I can, doesn't feel right.

Keel Bolts have rust on the washers:
Got my hands in there to feel around, the forward keel bolt washer on the forward third is sunken into the hull an 1/8", there are a few cracks just ahead of it as well. Hard to know whether this is a real issue. Was afraid to taste the water to see if it had salt in it, it looked a bit disgusting. The rest of the keel bolts look okay behind the mast and under the galley sink. It's hard to say whether over torquing maybe caused the washer to sink some. I think a lot of the crap on the bolt threads can be removed with a wire brush, not sure about the washers.

Propshaft cupling at the engine is quite corroded/rusted:
Think the broker said the stuffing box is around 10 drips per minute. Either way if I was to replace the coupling I'd probably install a dripless...three blade prop...so take that off the price. Anyone know the cost to install dripless, replace the cupling and align a shaft?

Blisters:
Got some bad photos of the hull from the owner, broker said it has a "few" blisters. Hard to see but if you look close in the photos it looks like more than a few. Broker said could be bad bottom paint job.

Other items that need replaced/repaired/TLC:
Overall due for new standing rigging, lifelines, running rigging, dodger, all new electronics, radar (all told 30k?) The boat was in decent shape, well kept for an 89'. Engine ran well, no smoke. Low hours (1500). Although spotty record of maintenance.

Either way I'd be offering much less than asking with all of these repairs in mind, or are these all pretty standard for a boat this age? Not sure if there's such a thing as a "mint" 89' Ericson but I could be wrong.

Here are the photos, maybe you can spot something in there I can't. Thinking about whether to proceed with an offer or not, appreciate the feedback!

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx6tzmnoism-MlZSVUVxMGJUTjQ&usp=sharing
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I couldn't find the video of the flexing cockpit deck. That seems worth talking about.

Moisture meters--lots to go wrong in use and interpretation, I am told.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
The rule of 3...

These are all common issues in boats this vintage. The Ericson 30+ I am working on purchasing has very similar issues, so I will be following responses with great interest. Unless you are willing to spend quite a bit more to get a boat where all the work has been done you will be fixing all of these problems eventually. On our first boat I always seemed to understimate the time and money it would take to fix a problem. As someone once said of a sailboat: "It's all connected." So I have learned to multiply my first reaction to cost and timeline by 3X. And that is for work that I do myself. If a yard is doing it, multiply time to complete by 2X and cost by 6X!

Overall she looks pretty good. The keel would be my biggest concern. Get a good survey of the hull. I would not let any of these issues so far stop you if you are prepared for some hard work.
 

ofshore74

Member III
I couldn't find the video of the flexing cockpit deck. That seems worth talking about.

Moisture meters--lots to go wrong in use and interpretation, I am told.

Here is a separate link with video of the deck flexing (also of the engine) should've put the camera down while doing this it's a bit hard to see the flexing, anyway here it is:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx6tzmnoism-OS13VVZNVVFaU0E&usp=sharing

I hear you about moisture meters however the areas where there was moisture were clearly compromised with a crack or hole. So it seems to make sense that there would be some. But I am by no means a moisture meter expert.
 

ofshore74

Member III
I would not let any of these issues so far stop you if you are prepared for some hard work.

Would most likely pay a yard to replace rigging, maybe even fix blisters and redo the hull (15k?) not sure about the helm flexing, maybe reinforce the cockpit deck and repair delamination too (7k) replace shaft seal with dripless, new coupling (2k) while I'm on the hard...hmmmm adds up quick don't it!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Regarding the pedestal: is that an Edson system? If so, good, since the company is still around.

Older Ericsons had Yacht Specialties/Merriman pedestals, which from the look of it had a wider pedestal guard base (and a bigger "Y" connecting plate).

A pedestal shouldn't move around, and mine doesn't. But it may be that the set screws on the guard base aren't tight.

Any flexing of the cockpit deck in that area would be of interest, since the sheaves assembly is bolted under there too.

But I'm only familiar with YS/M. They look like this:

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HerbertFriedman

Member III
Five years ago, the previous owner replaced the prop shaft, cutless bearing and added the dripless seal on his 87 E4=34. Also new front motor mount so the engine alignment had to be checked. Total bill was about $2000. Seems cheap for the SF bay area, dont know what the current price for this job would be now.
 

ofshore74

Member III
A pedestal shouldn't move around, and mine doesn't. But it may be that the set screws on the guard base aren't tight.

Any flexing of the cockpit deck in that area would be of interest, since the sheaves assembly is bolted under there too.

I might actually drive back to the boat tomorrow with the moisture meter and check, I honestly can't remember now whether I did reading around the base now? Oi! I certainly don't want to be this guy: https://www.raggedsails.com/repairing-wet-deck-core-of-the-cockpit-floor/

At the very least I can empty the starboard locker and get down inside to see if I can see the trouble.
 

ofshore74

Member III
Five years ago, the previous owner replaced the prop shaft, cutless bearing and added the dripless seal on his 87 E4=34. Also new front motor mount so the engine alignment had to be checked. Total bill was about $2000. Seems cheap for the SF bay area, dont know what the current price for this job would be now.
Helpful to know, thank you.
 

ofshore74

Member III
Regarding the pedestal: is that an Edson system? If so, good, since the company is still around.
Yes I believe it is. Here is a diagram of the base that fastens the underside (Stop Ring) maybe as you say, loose? Just heard back from the broker, will be driving back tomorrow for the verdict.
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JSM

Member III
To get a view of the pedestal base area there is a panel in the ceiling of the rear berth that is held in place with 4 screws. Just had mine off two days ago.
I just purchased my 87 E34 in May. As far as replacing the coupling if its just rusted and everything else is in good shape I'd leave it alone. If you do replace the coupler you might as well replace the shaft and cutlass bearing as well. The shaft and coupler need to be machined to fit each other. Pay close attention to this area. The previous owners handiwork cost me a haul out and 6 weeks of sailing . I found this link to be very helpful.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal
I just finished replacing the shaft, coupler , stuffing box, cutlass bearing and motor mounts. Total cost for parts was just a bit over $1000 . My yard charged me $250 for the alignment (which I will soon be redoing my self).
 

ofshore74

Member III
To get a view of the pedestal base area there is a panel in the ceiling of the rear berth that is held in place with 4 screws. Just had mine off two days ago.
I just purchased my 87 E34 in May. As far as replacing the coupling if its just rusted and everything else is in good shape I'd leave it alone. If you do replace the coupler you might as well replace the shaft and cutlass bearing as well. The shaft and coupler need to be machined to fit each other. Pay close attention to this area. The previous owners handiwork cost me a haul out and 6 weeks of sailing . I found this link to be very helpful.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal
I just finished replacing the shaft, coupler , stuffing box, cutlass bearing and motor mounts. Total cost for parts was just a bit over $1000 . My yard charged me $250 for the alignment (which I will soon be redoing my self).

Thanks for the tips. I have a sneaking suspicion that this boat has way too much core damage. Debating whether I even make the trip back this morning to investigate further. The anchor locker needs some major repair and one section is completely saturated. Basically the entire area around the anchor locker needs to be repaired/replaced.

Thanks for the info about the coupler I feel like this one is pretty much toast, here's the photo:

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Looks like the stuffing box has been spraying for a while. But this rust issue in itself might not bother me much.

Core issues would, because it's a project.

But I have a hunch this boat is pretty close to what's out there among Ericsons, esp. regionally available, esp. if looking for a specific model, esp. considering the average sales price, which suggest they all need work.
 

ofshore74

Member III
Just got back from the boat, round deux. Photos and video below.

There are definitely a few areas that need professional core repair: at the anchor locker, small spot starboard side deck not far from a shroud (pin-hole where moisture got in 4-5" round), and possible reinforcement at the helm because of flexing. But no major wet core at the helm, other than the two screws holding the hand-hold base to the cockpit floor. I did find cracks around the raised portion of the cockpit aft of the wheel where it drains, one side is fairly noticeable and even protruding. They're both long and wrap around each side. It’s almost as if the cockpit floor separated or sustained damage on impact; maybe the owner was thrown forward when he went aground? Apparently he's got a sore shoulder...and they're looking at getting a trawler...hmmmm

I found access to to the underside of the helm in the aft cabin to investigate (thanks to JSM mentioning it) so I unscrewed the section of ceiling but nothing appeared rotted or broken. I did find a couple of 2x2s that had some rot on either side of the helm steering cables leading aft, but don't think they would cause fiberglass to flex. Regardless it seems like a weird design decision by Ericson to offer a raised cockpit at the helm. Have a look at the photos you'll see four screw-holes that connect the helm hand-hold to the cockpit deck, they go straight thru at the beveled corner which doesn't have the same plywood reinforcement like the rest of the cockpit.

Just wrapping my head around how much all of this core repair at the anchor locker and helm might cost. And if it's worth it. Thinking of getting a quote from a local yard if I decide to make an offer, here are the photos: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx6tzmnoism-TW1BUHpveE9NRms&usp=sharing

And a video of the mysterious flexing helm! https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bx6tzmnoism-ZTVIZkZJQzlBTEE&usp=sharing
 
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ofshore74

Member III
Looks like the stuffing box has been spraying for a while. But this rust issue in itself might not bother me much.

Core issues would, because it's a project.

But I have a hunch this boat is pretty close to what's out there among Ericsons, esp. regionally available, esp. if looking for a specific model, esp. considering the average sales price, which suggest they all need work.

Not sure how I feel about the core issues, love everything else about the boat. Maybe I just factor in the cost of the core repair at a yard and make an offer. Really how much could it be, 10 grand? 15 grand? No vacations or craft beer for the next 12 months?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Someone's been doing some repair work under that cockpit. I note that some of the short pieces of tape-wrapped metal that EY routinely used to secure control cables are now bypassed. Not an alarming sight, but having spent some idle hours under our cockpit doing and R/R on the steering sheaves and later paying (gasp) a yard person to replace the shift/throttle cables (and then having do a little re-securing of those runs after having them do it. Grrr...)
I see some familiar Ericson stuff.

One thing foreign to me is that whole raised cockpit sole section aft. I do not recall seeing that on sister ships, but then I was not looking for it either.

One note about core repair cost -- it's all about skill and hours. And a good craftsman should give you a realistic bid and stick to it, albeit with some contingency in the 10% area for fixing unknowns.
To me the greatest challenge is just matching the gel coat color. :)

Best of luck,
Loren
 

ofshore74

Member III
Someone's been doing some repair work under that cockpit. I note that some of the short pieces of tape-wrapped metal that EY routinely used to secure control cables are now bypassed. Not an alarming sight, but having spent some idle hours under our cockpit doing and R/R on the steering sheaves and later paying (gasp) a yard person to replace the shift/throttle cables (and then having do a little re-securing of those runs after having them do it. Grrr...)
I see some familiar Ericson stuff.

One thing foreign to me is that whole raised cockpit sole section aft. I do not recall seeing that on sister ships, but then I was not looking for it either.

One note about core repair cost -- it's all about skill and hours. And a good craftsman should give you a realistic bid and stick to it, albeit with some contingency in the 10% area for fixing unknowns.
To me the greatest challenge is just matching the gel coat color. :)

Best of luck,
Loren

Thanks Loren. I don't know if you saw it in the photos but, doesn't the woodwork under the cockpit seem a bit ramshackle? Wonder if that's Ericson. Further aft on either side of the actual wheel, looking in from the rear lazerette I took photos looking in. I see some bits of fiberglass behind the wood anyway. Hard to know if someone was trying to reinforce the cockpit of if, as I said, the helm got slammed by someones body weight. Starting to feel like Inspector Clouseau.

Thanks for the tip about the gel coat, hadn't thought about matching an aged and faded 1989 color. An art in itself I'm sure.
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
The four Ericsons I have looked at (and a multitude of other boats including CS and C&C) all had that unfinished scrap wood used to hold the bowels of the boat together. I don't think that is anything to be worried about. The sealant on the pedestal guard bolts on the underside is a sure sign of a lazy repair to stop leaking (that would never work). The plywood backing plate seems very small to take the load of the pedestal. And the skin on the underside of the cockpit seems pretty thin to resist upward forces. I would be inclined to cut a big piece of G10 to match the raised portion of the cockpit (at least the front half where the pedestal resides), glass it to the underside of the cockpit, and then heavily tab the edges of the G10 over that radius where the cracks are (the gutters in the cockpit). This should reinforce the raised portion of the cockpit and the gutters substantially, and give a good bearing surface for the pedestal and guard. I hope I explained that right.
 
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