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Terra Nova: Flooding

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Wonderful.

Doesn't it seem as though the boatyard read "insurance job" from the beginning? Actually, for a yard to do all that here would probably hit the insurance value of my boat, which is currently 50K.

It sounds like your insurance company is above average, maybe way above. How do you rate them?
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Hi Christian, The Insurance Company is Markel. I signed up with them through USAA. Markel has been wonderful through this experience. They have not argued with me at any point during this period. If the Surveyor agreed with me, they said ok. The surveyor recommended more than I would have. Markel also waived all depreciations except for 10% for the stove (1987 CGI converted to propane) and 10% on the cushions. zero depreciations on everything else.

Once upon a time, I was an Underwriter and Claims Adjuster. I know, from that time that Ins Cos don't like the insured to touch anything. I am charging a good hourly rate and they have said yes.

There is no doubt that Terra Nova will be a much better boat after this experience. I would not recommend this as a way of improving your boat. The experience has been rather traumatic. :0
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Things have been moving along. The electrical is about complete. Miles of clipped off wiring and overly long tubing have been eliminated. All connections possible have been lifted out of the bilges. The only things remaining are to install the new alternator and starter. They will be installed as soon as the engine is resprayed. I want to run the engine on last time and change the oil, radiator fluid and tranny oil one last time then remove all the hoses etc. for the cleanup. They are all being replaced now. Also the shift, throttle, and shutoff cables are being replaced. I tried measuring them so I could pull the new ones while removing the old ones. Results were not close enough so I will pull a fish tape through.

While cleaning up under the sink area (a total mess), I unearthed this tubing disaster. This is the salt water seacock and pump out for the two iceboxes. All of this is two feet under the waterline. First, all hoses are single clamped. Second, a schedule 40 tee is used (a no-no under the waterline). The salt water pump is also two feet below the waterline and it is single clamped on both ends. I think I might just cap off the salt water intake at the seacock and just use the second pump for pumping out the iceboxes. I never use the salt water spigot anyway. I do now have room for my new Isotherm refer unit under the sink.

I decided to look a little further at the seacocks. Under the head sink are two 1 1/2 inch seacocks for the head pump out. Both have a 90 degree bend in them between the hull and the seacock. Those two bends are schedule 40. They need to be removed immediately at haul out and a couple of safe 90's to replace them. Everyone, please check everything again!!!!
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GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
Both have a 90 degree bend in them between the hull and the seacock. Those two bends are schedule 40. They need to be removed immediately at haul out and a couple of safe 90's to replace them. Everyone, please check everything again!!!!QUOTE]

Please let me know details if you find safe 90s.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Loren has the answer. Replace the offending seacocks with Forespar Marlon seacocks with a 90 degree bend at the top. Look at #931156. The seacock is then where it should be on the hull and not after a 90 degree bend. Christian was right that this was a dumb idea by Ericson back in the 80's.
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Under the head sink are two 1 1/2 inch seacocks for the head pump out. Both have a 90 degree bend in them between the hull and the seacock. Those two bends are schedule 40.

FWIW, on my boat, hull #234, the head seacocks are mounted to the thru hulls, the same as the galley sink drain in your pic. The 90s are on the gazouta side of the seacocks.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Wow! This sinking thing gets you to know your boat fast! When dismounting the drowned alternator I found that I indeed did have a Balmar but it was entirely the wrong Balmar! The mount system was two eared and did not fit the mount There was a mickey mouse set of spacers added and the thru bolt was way too small for the alternator mount. That's why the alternator was mounted so oddly. The standard improved mount rubbed on this alternators cooling fan. Because the alternator didn't fit the opening correctly, the cooling hose couldn't be used and that mickey mouse setup was adopted. All is being corrected now. There's always a reason things are done oddly.

Oh My God, what was Ericson thinking of when they routed the raw water cooling line? Even with the floorboards up (a major problem as they were glued down), I couldn't rout the line and had to reroute it. No wonder the cooling line was rotting off.

While cleaning up the hoses around the engine and under the galley sink, I discovered that three of the double clamped hoses had only one clamp tightened up. Some careless pro's out there. I did cap off the seacock for the salt water intake for the Galley sink. I have not used it once and all of the plumbing would have to be replaced as none of the barbs were long enough for double clamps. Being that they were all two feet below the waterline, this was a major omission on this system. Now the left manual pump empties the two iceboxes. If I decide to do the Christian thing and head to Hawaii, I can easily uncap it and set it up properly. In the meantime, I hardly recognize the galley sink area. There's actually space under there!

The approaching storms are noted! I am counting on the Olympics to block much of the force although the storm warnings are up for the straights. The weathermen are still uncertain of the exact path of this storm. :0
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Engine Intake Note

On the little part about the engine water intake, for some reason Ericson put that intake under the galley module in the O-34. Then the hose was routed rearward thru holes drilled in the inner frp ribbing, and routed back under the sole and thru the engine bed logs and then to the raw water pump.
It was under the aft sole section and really kind of awkward.
I did not like having the valve under the galley, crowded close to the sink drain. So early in our ownership, when I was replacing all of the early production RC Marine thru hulls (nowadays owned by Forespar) with the newer design "OEM style" Forespar units, I also had the intake moved aft under the front part of the aft cabin berth.
This gave us a place for a Groco strainer and gave a shorter more-direct hose route to the front of the engine where the pump is.
We also upgraded to the thru-hull model that allows easy connection to a hose for winterizing.
There is a picture in my earlier thread here.

Loren
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
One of the tasks as part of the recovery is the replacement of the control cables. I have already cursed the engineer that designed them to eternal hell with the punishment of having to replace them for eternity. The Edson instructions for replacement are suitable for starting the fireplace fire. Even after unhooking the cables at the quadrant and lifting the chain at the top of the pedestal out of the way, the cable clamp will not move past the wheel shaft. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pull this clamp up other than sawsalling the pedestal and putting in a tiller?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One of the tasks as part of the recovery is the replacement of the control cables. I have already cursed the engineer that designed them to eternal hell with the punishment of having to replace them for eternity. The Edson instructions for replacement are suitable for starting the fireplace fire. Even after unhooking the cables at the quadrant and lifting the chain at the top of the pedestal out of the way, the cable clamp will not move past the wheel shaft. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pull this clamp up other than sawsalling the pedestal and putting in a tiller?

Is this a place where you are working beneath the compass location? I have removed our compass once and there is a plate under that, but I have not had to undo the assembly any further.

Loren
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I can't tell exactly where you're stuck. Did you take the two bell-cranks off of the throttle and shift levers and pull the levers out? That will give you room despite the sprocket, I believe, to pull the arms and the cable ends into the light. That is what I recall from my pedestal adventure in 2014-15. I had to get all of that spacer attached stuff out of the way - pulled up or dropped down inside - to unwind the spacer when one screw refused several days of effort by me and the yard.

Excellent thread by Christian on a good way to get the pedestal apart.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Hi all, Sorry for the slow reply. My venue has relocated to the Portland (Loren's stomping grounds) for the Thanksgiving week. I have to start teaching the 2 year old the finer points of handling a spinnaker pole. The problem so far is he can't reach the bail even with it lowered. Can a step be used?

The reason the cables are being replaced is the salt water bath I gave them in June. Replace now with everything a big mess inside or wait for a year and rip the boat up again. I pulled the cables under the double berth and the fuel tank with fairly few problems. A messenger line is in place. The cables were then pulled into the double berth with no problems. I then read up on how to remove the cables from the Edson Pedestal. A snap! Just remove the nut holding the bracket, push the bracket down so both cables can be brought up on the same side and slipped out the top. If the bracket is stubborn, just loosen up the steering cables and, viola, the bracket pops out. A clue that it might not work quite like that was an online comment that the ability to swear is an essential tool for this job. The Edson instructions are a joke. The binnacle is off and the shift housing is disconnected and laid to the side. When I get north again, I will try what Christian suggested and remove the steering chain completely. If that doesn't work, the pedestal could be removed and the cables pulled down through the bottom. The lack of engineering on this critical component is inexcusable. The designer had a great future in the automotive business.
 

EGregerson

Member III
cables

I didn't have to disconnect the chain to do the shift/throttle cables. As u slide the cable(s) bracket assy up the aft side of the binnacle tube, the threaded bolt just sort of 'finds' it's way into the hole. Maybe i just got lucky. but...

This has to be a whole harrowing experience; reminds me of when mine got totalled; and decided to keep/repair her. Money can't restore a boat like this; it costs too much; only love. A labor of love.

ps; mine has the black heavy hose under the sink; not a light bendy hose like urs had; Did the PO install that.
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
I actually did manage to pull the cables out of the pedestal. I had to disconnect the chain and completely move it out of the way. It still took quite a yank on the cables to get the bracket assembly past the sprocket shaft.
putting it back in required tapping with a punch and hammer. Actually getting the bracket lined up to get the threaded portion through the itty bitty hole 7" below the shaft turned out to be surprisingly simple. The steering, throttle and shut off cables are fully reinstalled and all are working well. The replaced ones were showing quite a bit of damage from the salt water already.After all the various hoses are hooked up, we will try the engine out. The new alternator is fully installed. Things are moving along. Guess I'm not turning this into a tiller steered boat after all.

You are very right about the restoration being an act of love. The economically proper way to do this would have been to allow the Insurance Company to total the boat then to go out and find another one. I had done so much work on this one over the last three years that I wasn't about to let I go. The problem is I keep adding to the project. We now have a Dickenson 12000 BTU radiator style heater built into the companionway bulkhead to warm the wife while sitting under the dodger when it is cold out (quite often on the Straights). I blame Loren for this suggestion. Rae Ann praises him. All new electricals are going in. New stove, water heater, head, flooring, cushions, etc are going in. This will almost be a new boat when done. I'm not even bothering to track the hours spent here. They far exceed what was needed to correct the problems caused by the flooding. This is going to be like a new boat, though. :egrin:
 

EGregerson

Member III
bilge pump

"why don't we have compact and powerful 110v pumps," from bgary in Post #36
This is a great idea. I found this at WM: Rule Automatic Bilge Pump: AC 1800 gph.
Just in time for the holidays!Bilge Pump.jpg
 
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supersailor

Contributing Partner
Time for a small update. I have finished the electrical and mechanical upgrades for Terra Nova, The test run of the engine shows that all systems are working. There is one exception. The glow plugs are on 24/7. The systems have no indicators for this problem. I found it out with a voltmeter. This is the second time I have had this problem. The problem (once again) is the failure of the momentary push button at the engine panel. This is not comforting. Thinking about an easy way to check this would be to turn on the ignition, wait a minute and push the starter and see if the engine immediately starts (hard to do with the original Ericson setup). I found it by touching a glow plug and an engine ground with the engine running. Glow plugs 24/7 are not good.

I am now ordering the new stove, water heater and a refer unit to convert the nav station cooler to a freezer. After the new floor, it should be just the new cushions and done!

After removing about five miles of excess wiring and various other unnecessary stuff, Terra Nova seems to be a little up at the stern. When I load everything back on board, she might come down a little but she seems to be a little lighter.P1000796.jpgP1000799.JPG
 
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