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E35-2 Exhaust

bradh

Member II
Launched on Friday. This spring I replaced the prop shaft, coupler, stuffing box,and cutlass... so I thought the boat gods would be in my favor. Well possibly in the process of realignment, I must have tweaked the exhaust and pushed it to it's last straw. No good deed goes unpunished. I have an exhaust leak at the 2nd bend (turn from vertical-down to horizontal in bilge, before the water injection). This is a center mounted Atomic-4.

Anyone done an exhaust refit on a 35-II and have info they could share? The routing seems a bit odd, so if anyone has a diagram for the 35-II, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Brad
 
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admirals barge

Member III
exhaust refit

about 5 years ago I decided to replace the plumbing nightmare that was the exhaust. my engine is under the settee and not behind the ladder as some are. the pipes were beyond rusty. and I discovered a mixing tube under the sole that went to a vertical muffler on the starboard side of the boat behind the sink. needless to say I tore all of it out.

what I found was a westerbeke elbow would fit perfectly on the atomic 4 exhaust manifold. what is required is a new exhaust flange, gasket and a nipple to connect the the elbow to. moyer marine should have the flange and gasket. I then decided on a vetus muffler. input on the side output on the top. I glassed in a shelf to the hull just behind the door and mounted the muffler. I ran the exhaust hose from the elbow to the muffler. and from the top of the muffler as high as I could get the hose to bend and then it was a down hill run to the exhaust hull fitting. I also installed an anti syphon valve. ran it from the exhaust manifold to the valve and from the valve to the elbow which has 3 ports in which to feed the water into the elbow. use the one that works for you.... I haven't had a bit of trouble with the exhaust system... I hope this helped. if you research the muffler you'll see that there not that big.

good luck

greg
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
When my boat was new to me, I didn't notice any exhaust issues. Then I did an acid-flush of the A4 block, during the big haul-out. I guess the rust was all that was holding it together, because when it went back in the water, the exhaust turned out to look -and function- like Swiss cheese, under the insulation wrap.

Early this spring/late this winter, when I started using the engine more, there was a lot of vapor coming up in the lazarette. I thought there must be an exhaust leak, but apparently it was just moisture steaming out of the insulation wrap on the exhaust pipe.

I'm getting a bad feeling about that wrap trapping moisture against the pipe all the time. Some slow day, I feel that I ought to investigate that whole issue gain.
 

admirals barge

Member III
exhaust refit

that sounds like an exhaust leak under the wrap. there shouldn't be any moisture at all. the water comes out of the exhaust manifold and into the mixing elbow. and out thru the muffler. I would remove the wrap and see what's going on. if its all that rusty may have a pin hole leak...
 

Leander

Member II
Had a reply yet?

Launched on Friday. This spring I replaced the prop shaft, coupler, stuffing box,and cutlass... so I thought the boat gods would be in my favor. Well possibly in the process of realignment, I must have tweaked the exhaust and pushed it to it's last straw. No good deed goes unpunished. I have an exhaust leak at the 2nd bend (turn from vertical-down to horizontal in bilge, before the water injection). This is a center mounted Atomic-4.

Anyone done an exhaust refit on a 35-II and have info they could share? The routing seems a bit odd, so if anyone has a diagram for the 35-II, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Brad

Hi Brad,

I can't tell from the responses so far whether anyone has submitted photos or a diagram that might help you. I have a center cabin mount engine on my 35-2, now a Universal M3 20B diesel. I have done some refitting on the exhaust. My exhaust travels aft midline bilge until cockpit, then over and up on starboard side with a high anti-reflux loop (above max heeled waterline), then out the starboard stern. I can't think that there should be much difference in the exhaust system between my engine and your Atomic 4: job of eliminating heat, noise, and exhaust gases is the same.

Would be happy to submit pictures or diagram. Would like a little better idea of what part you are trying to understand. What do you mean by "The routing seems a bit odd" on your boat?

Leander
 

bradh

Member II
Some more info and more to come.....

My exhaust seems to travel in a similar fashion. I will put a diagram/pictures together and upload them for comments. (I have been traveling the last week so tonight will be my first opportunity to do more than survey the situation.)

My routing does go out of the block , down to the top of the bilge, back along the center line, over to starboard, up behind the sink wall, turn back through the starboard lazerette and out. What seems weird to me is that the water injection looks to happen back by the motor - just aft of the motor, under the sole as it travels back (and below the water line). But I will post pictures.

Thanks all!

Brad
 

Leander

Member II
My exhaust seems to travel in a similar fashion. I will put a diagram/pictures together and upload them for comments. (I have been traveling the last week so tonight will be my first opportunity to do more than survey the situation.)

My routing does go out of the block , down to the top of the bilge, back along the center line, over to starboard, up behind the sink wall, turn back through the starboard lazerette and out. What seems weird to me is that the water injection looks to happen back by the motor - just aft of the motor, under the sole as it travels back (and below the water line). But I will post pictures.

Thanks all!

Brad

Hi Brad,

Your configuration may be exactly correct. In general, you want to get the water mixing with the hot exhaust as soon as possible. Before the water is added, the exhaust tubing is very hot and therefore dangerous and needs insulation and protection to avoid starting a fire or burning skin. Adding the water drops the exhaust temperature for the rest of the exhaust run, increasing safety. Consider the difference between an exhaust system on a car-outside, separated from nearby parts (which are all metal anyway), visible. In your boat, that fire hazard is hidden, near many flammable materials including fuel lines, and consequences of fire if it did occur are much worse.
 

Leander

Member II
Hi Brad,

Your configuration may be exactly correct. In general, you want to get the water mixing with the hot exhaust as soon as possible. Before the water is added, the exhaust tubing is very hot and therefore dangerous and needs insulation and protection to avoid starting a fire or burning skin. Adding the water drops the exhaust temperature for the rest of the exhaust run, increasing safety. Consider the difference between an exhaust system on a car-outside, separated from nearby parts (which are all metal anyway), visible. In your boat, that fire hazard is hidden, near many flammable materials including fuel lines, and consequences of fire if it did occur are much worse.

An exhaust system without water is called a "dry stack". Design principles, the same reasons as above, usually mean that the dry exhaust stack rises directly up from the engine, through the cabin roof, heavily insulated, to exhaust into air high above deck, with as short a run as possible. Think tugboat or long-haul semi truck. Not what you want on an Ericson.
 

bradh

Member II
Maybe two water jackets....?

Attached is what I found. I go 1 1/4" steel out of the block, down and into a water jacket (looks to be in good shape). Back along the bilge. Into 1/ 14" up the starboard side. I have not uncovered the riser section, but looking at the hose run, it looks to be another water jacket (spot checking under the insulation, it does not look to be in as good of shape). It looks too small (~3in diameter) to be a water lift muffler.

Thoughts?

Brad
 

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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
The vertical section is likely a standpipe exhaust, in which the cooling water mixes with the exhaust gases. Mine was just a collection of rust flakes, which disintegrated after I acid flushed the engine. Got a new stainless steel one from Moyer Marine, but you (or your local machine shop) could whip one up from black iron pipe.
 

bradh

Member II
Details are getting less fuzzy......

thanks - your description got me hunting and I found a picture of basically what I have in another post:

attachment.php

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...20-E29-Atomic-4-Standpipe-Muffler-Replacement

The referenced fab drawing is no longer available in the thread. If anyone has one, I would love to see it.

Toddster - Is the Moyer one you ordered?
http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=EXHT_01.0_527

It looks tall (20") and swaps the direction of the long end.

So my problem was at the engine end. Peaking through the insulation, the stand pipe end looks rough though. I should do both while I am there.... correct?

Thanks for everyone's valuable input.

Brad
 

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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
The Moyer unit was actually a bit shorter than the one that came with my boat. The only functional difference is that the water inlet is at the top and the exhaust port is at the bottom.

Old and new pics in this thread, around page 4. Can't seem to link direct to the pic.



Diagram of internals:
 

bradh

Member II
More questions....

Toddster - do you have a picture of it installed in your boat (I don't see that in the Moyer thread). So I just need to make sure that I have about 24" (20" + 4" of water inlet room) of open height above the exhaust port, correct?

Another question - at the engine flange to water jacket I would like to use a section of flexible hose (on the dry side). Anyone have a recommended product/solution? something like: http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ct.do?pid=11693&familyName=Vetus+Exhaust+Hose
 
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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
:unsure: Um... I think that hose is for wet exhaust. I would take a lot of convincing to use anything but iron pipe on the dry side.

I can try to get a pic this week - I was going to inspect it anyway. Unless there's wind ;) It's kind of hard to see, behind a plywood baffle and the heat exchanger hoses. (I moved the HEX into the lazarette to make room in the engine compartment, and also to shorten up connections to the standpipe and to the water heater.) You don't need a whole four inches on top if you use a street-ell fitting. I think I also "borrowed" a couple of inches by using a shorter bit of pipe in the dry section at the bottom. I drilled a hole in the plywood baffle for the exhaust hose. That might also be a consideration... you want the outlet high enough to drain to the through-hull.
 
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bradh

Member II
Not enough height......

I wish you good winds... but if you get a chance to take a picture, that would be great. If not, no worries, I think I don't have enough height. I measured last night and I only have 9" of height between the shelf that the exhaust runs on and the bottom side of my deck.

Yes - I want to put a flex section on the dry exhaust in the hot section. For alignment purposes and so the exhaust does not take stress. Anyone see thois done before and know of a product rated for it? I know there is automotive braided hoses.

Thanks!


Brad
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
the hose knows

If you do a google search for exhaust flex hose, there seem to be a lot of automotive-intended hoses, with either clamp-on ends or pipe thread end pieces, in a number of lengths. I found quite a few with ss braid.
Next I found myself wandering around in the massive McMaster-Carr web site for an extended period. Oh My.
:0

Anyhow it looks like there should be some "hose" available that will do what you want.

Regards,
Loren
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
The exhaust does seem to be a difficult aspect of the mid-boat engine location. And yet, there are lots of them out there. I would take the whole mess out and present it to a local machine shop for duplication. They usually don't charge a lot. At least our local guys are more used to patching up farm equipment, and haven't yet caught on to "yacht pricing."

(IIRC, my parts guy recognized the engine flange and gasket as "the same as an old flat-head Ford." But if you get one of those guys who can only look up parts by number, they may just give you a blank stare.).
 

bradh

Member II
High Temp Exhaust Flex Line

Yes - I am going to start looking at doing that after some more research. As a temporary fix for the section that I know is bad, I did find this solution (with help from here and Moyer Forum): http://www.mcmaster.com/#5676t36

Thanks again!

Brad
 

admirals barge

Member III
35 II muffler

brad here are pictures of my exhaust elbow and muffler. the output of the muffler goes up and then turns 90 degrees and is a down hill run to the thru hull

hope this helps
 

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bradh

Member II
Greg,

Thanks! And sorry it took me so long to respond (I have been traveling).

In reviewing the Ericson manual, it seems I have the "original" configuration: water jacket under sole to behind cabin wall, hard piped up to a water jacket stand pipe (and only then does the exhaust and water mix). I tore into my system and it will need to be replaced. I fixed the sections that need immediate attention now.

So that brings me to the final fix in the Fall. I like your setup and I am contemplating doing something similar. I have one question, shouldn't your dry exhaust go up above the water line before going into the westerbreke mixer (the top of the engine being about 4-6in below waterline)? One idea I had was to take the hard pipe out of the engine block and up use that space where the shelf is next to the nav station (where your water hose is looped, but go higher) and box it in on the nav station side.

Thanks,

Brad
 
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