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E27 mainsheet set up

JPS27

Member III
Is the pictured set up for my mainsheet that I just put on my ericson 27 a bad idea? Prior to this I had a set up of schaeffer fiddle block with sheaves that were beginning to wear out (as in it looks like it might disintegrate like my block for my reefing line did end of last season). The prior main sheet system connected to the fore and aft brackets you see on the boom. I replaced the old system with this 6:1 harken system.

I tried it out yesterday and it seemed to work great, except for two thoughts/concerns. When on a broach reach the lower block and traveler system rub up against each other. I can probably solve that simply with a slightly longer shackle. The line didn't get bungled up when tacking, but I thought maybe in the long run the issue might be a problem. AND more importantly it dawned on me that perhaps having all the force at one point on the boom might be a bad idea. Maybe the load was spread to two points for a reason? I would appreciate any wisdom on this. thanks. Jay



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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I would guess that the rig design incorporated a certain amount 'excess' strength, which gives you potentially some leeway.
OTOH, the main sheet load was designed to be taken from a mid point of all three of those original bails. And those bails also spread that "mid point load" over several feet of boom; and that's not a minor consideration.

So putting all of the load on the most-forward bail Really applies a lot of stress and an occasional shock load to the weakest point on the spar section.

BTW, your new mainsheet tackle is very much like the 6 to 1 tackle on our boom, but ours is attached way back toward the end of the boom.

I foresee a lot of risk for a bent or broken boom due to a gibe, and maybe even happening prior to that. :0

Or, as an actual rigger might say: "Yikes" ... !

Loren
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm with Loren, use the bails as designed to spread the load. It's important.

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bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Yes, get a single block on each of those bails. Also, it looks like your outhaul tensioner is attached to the aft bail. Drill and tap an eye aft of their for an attachment point to remove the opposing force from that bail when mainsheet is tensioned.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
If that's the outhaul, can that go inside the boom? And unless racing there's no need for all that purchase anyhow.

What's the aft end of the boom look like?
 

JPS27

Member III
E27 mainsheet & boom pics

To answer Christian's question about what the end of the boom looks like I lucked out and found a pic of my son that captures the end of the boom. With that info and the cockpit picture you might make out the track for the original placement of the mainsheet. That track was cut and shaped to allow the guard to fit. And I presume the new traveler was put in above the cabin? I could be all wrong, but seems logical. Also, see pic of original mainsheet set up as I received the boat. In the diagram Christian posted it seems like the middle bail was also incorporated, but I would not know how to do that at this point. But the fore and aft ones were. And advice on changes I should make to the original set up because I plan to go back to that, but better if possible. Thanks.



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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I think most of us are set up like this ( message #11 in ):

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...t-quot-safe-working-load-quot-of-a-vang-block

Harken_Rigs_2.jpg

Blocks are expensive, and there is nothing wrong with rigging something with the blocks you have, if the load is spread.

Anyhow, 5:1 was a popular factory rig. Since you're not using a winch on the main, I'd stick with that.

Are there rollers (sheaves, one or more) at the end of the boom leading inside it? If so, the outhaul, with its blocks, belongs inside the boom.

To rig it that way, remove boom and pull off end caps. The dead end of the outhaul will be a bolt near the gooseneck.

If you have three sheaves at boom end, that's for internal reefing lines.

This is generic, fellow owners of your model will be more specific--if that's the factory boom.

This may help a little:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?111-Paint-Boom-Revise-Outhaul
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
100% agree on spreading out the load across two or more boom-bails.

And... your question didn't include this, but... is your traveller taller than stock, or your boom lower than stock, or... something?

Seems to me like your current setup has very little working room between the blocks, leading me to think that your mainsheet will be "two-blocked" before you're able to get the tension you need to shape the main.

Might want to try smaller blocks and/or use blocks without swivels to provide extra span between the block on the traveler and the blocks on the boom.

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Your current setup seems slightly better than the photo of the old setup - where the loads on some of the segments were effectively horizontal - but for-sure you don't want the system to have that little range-of-adjustment when close-hauled.
 

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G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Yes there is very little working room between the bails and the main sheet block. Your boom is low. It should line up with the black line painted on the mast. However, it may be lowered to fit the main sail. So in that case you may be stuck there or may want to have the sail altered or replaced. The bails are the week point on this boat. After 40 years of use, the boom is weak there. Mine broke cleanly in half on a jib one day. Spread the load by using single blocks at each bail like it was originally. The traveler bridge does not look original - but i could be wrong. The original blocks at the bails were small (1.25" i think).
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Just looked at the pictures again! Look at the bend in your boom already? Not to alarm you... But mine looked like that before it broke! Might be time to replace soon. I had a new one build by someone who thought 3 months was fast turn-a-round. No bails! He milled slots (parallel to the length of the boom) and riveted fitted eyelets that hang below for block. Very strong and no place for water to leak in. Was hoping for internal reefs and outhaul. Only got the outhaul. I could not wait another month! Cost about 1 boat dollar. Stronger cross-section, no cap on the back. Good luck.
 

JPS27

Member III
My original versus THE original E27 mainsheet set up

Thanks for all the comments. Very helpful. This is what I plan to do:

I've been obsessively studying google images of 27s looking at how people set up the main. I would like to set it up with a single block at each bail as Grant and others suggested. What I wonder is if the modification to a traveler was high enough to make the distance between the middle bail and fiddle block problematic. I thought I would play around with the original set up. If that distance remains a problem I will go back to the original configuration (see picture in post #6). I also plan on tapping in an eye as suggests to take that outhaul tension off the aft bail.

Regarding an internal outhaul, that would be a new problem and learning experience to tackle so I will put that one in the queue of learning experiences (I have a pretty good list).
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Internal outhauls are nice for keeping loops of line from catching on boat parts and heads... but external is a lot simpler.
Perhaps a cascading system, using very small blocks would do the job. We did this on prior boats and it worked well. Line size would be about 3/16", and use light weight line. After all, you are only promoting about a foot of movement at the clew, so there's not a lot of line to deal with. Also, by dead-ending the initial line end at the boom end and running it thru a little block at the clew, you start out with a 2-part purchase right there.

Check the diagram of a 4 to 1 external system on this page link: http://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=3910


LB
 

JPS27

Member III
Boom bails

Taking advice from the forum to stick with a mainsheet set up that spreads the load I might look into replacing the bails with shorter versions to create more space between the middle bail and the fiddle block. Seems simple enough but I wanted to know if that might create an unforeseen (to me) issues(s). Right now I don't think I have room for a system with a fiddle block with added single block with another block on the center bail. Thanks.

Jay
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
The original boom/bail setup weakened the boom. The through holes are too large and the location of mid boom sheeting works against you.
I would not add any additional holes in this area if you have the original rig. End boom sheeting make sense but I don't like the traveler across the cockpit.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
But...why is the boom so low? The gooseneck is apparently adjustable. But if we are seeing a black band on the mast in the photo, that is where the boom should be.

If the mainsail is all the way up, then perhaps the sail doesn't quite fit the boat, which is not uncommon with replacement used sails.

In that case, start with the sail. Maybe it can be recut.

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JPS27

Member III
Thanks Grant and Christian. Grant, I was thinking that I could use existing drilled holes. But I will start with Christian's suggestion. The diagram he shared makes me think taht the boom was lowered because the distance on my set up from the gooseneck to the widened groove where my slugs go is ridiculously far and makes raising the main a total pain and a two person job. I will start there. Again, another new situation for me. I had know idea you could adjust a boom height, nor how you would do it.

(btw, I don't recall ever noticing a black band on my mast. That's a shadow in the pic I'm fairly certain. But a search I just did on boom height ericson 27 is again showing me how little I know. But I'm learning. thanks.)
 
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G Kiba

Sustaining Member
My 73' has a nice thick black line. I don't think it's a shadow. So. I use a sail slug stop (West Marine about $10) to set/adjust the fixed height of the boom. You can make one if you are handy or know someone that is. By 1/2 diameter aluminum rod. Cut 1" length. At half the length, drill and tap a #10-32 or 1/4-20 threaded hole all the through. Buy the appropriate screw about 1" length with washer. Then...

1) Remove the boom.
2) Slip in your sail slug stop or home made stop.
3) Position the stop and tighten the fastener
4) Slide the boom in the groove which will rest on top of the stop.
5) Raise or lower the slug to position the boom for your main sail.
6) That cleat in same the sail slot below the boom (if you have it)... Tie a line to the bottom eyelet on the goose neck then secure the line with that cleat.

Main sail halyard tension was the original function of this cleat. I found that it holds the boom down well against the stop.
Hope this is clear to you. If not,. I can post pictures later. Also of my main sheet configuration.
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi JPS27,

Your traveler setup is not the stock configuration for your boat. I see you have a wheel, with the E27 wheel model the original factory traveler location would have been right in front of the wheel. I would be temped to move it back there.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Split cockpit layout = the real answer

Well Duh. :rolleyes:
I got so interested in the main sheet and boom location that I failed to notice that the whole traveler had been relocated.
"I was looking at a tree or two and totally missed the rest of the forest!"

Now that I focus on the added secondary winches, I have to wonder if some previous owner had added and moved stuff around to suit his vision of a "racing configuration" ?

Time to take a step back and ponder restoring that main sheet to where it belongs and also raising the boom to where it was designed to go. The factory location for the main sheet was much better anyway, IMHO.

Loren
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
+1

In fact, just raising the boom to its designed height will probably help a lot.
 
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