mysterious leaks in cabinets beside galley/chart table

Water Runs toward the stern

My experience is that often water will run towards the stern, so the leak could be forward of the stanchion shown in the photo.

I would check the chain plates. My E29 has a fit stainless cover with two screws. Back out the screws lift the cover to see the hole cut for the chain plates. I used 3M silicon seal and it likes to be squeezed and it remain flexible.

Rick+

markvone said:

Cooper,

The last photo is very helpful.
I have leaking port and stbd far outboard in your exact location. My toe rail sail track is the most likely source. I see silicone hooped on all the inside nuts from a PO. I have conclusively eliminated: anything fwd of the diesel deck fill (the Nav Ctr fwd bulkhead directs all fwd/out do leaks to the pilot berths), diesel deck fill, fixed port lights, inboard Genoa track, hull - deck joint and the double leg stanchion (further aft and downhill on the E36).
I have a shelf at the Nav Ctr that is glassed to the hull behind the interior teak panel (directly below the toe rail track) that gets a puddle. More water runs down the inbd side of the hull, puddling on horizontal stiffeners below, near the floor and under my Nav seat.
I need to get a helper to remove all the fasteners and re-bed.

Mark

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markvone-

Assuming you mean the track just outside of the life line stanchions, I wonder if that might be the culprit as well, despite the fact I can't find the smoking gun (leaking bolt) in the vicinity of the nav table.

We will need to address the teak panel since it has become damaged by the leak. Seems you might know what this is mounted to? I haven't unscrewed it because I fear it may disintegrate due to the damage to date.

And a big thanks to Christian et al. for all of your help with my side queries!

Cooper,

I don't know what is behind the panel on the E30. Hopefully, one of the other E30 owners will chime in. My interior panel is ~ 6 inches inboard of the hull. The shelf is plywood and has a dip where it bonds to the hull. No water comes inboard, it puddles in the dip and then runs down to the Nav desk level (behind a lower teak panel) via holes for cables. It continues down from the desk level dip via more cable access holes to an open storage area and then a horizontal stiffener at floor level. My floor level teak under the Nav seat gets wet, but the water path to there is all right at the hull and hidden above desk level.

I have read of using flour or similar fine powder dusted on the hull or other surfaces to identify the path of water leaks by the tracks left behind. I haven't thought of a "duster" or spray device to apply the powder with yet but I will be using this to find the source of all my leaks this year.

Mark

leaks

Cooper,

I had the exact leak on my 1983+. I removed all the ports, disassembled the ports, new port gaskets.

At that point I found my cabin mast foot was collapsing and the core was rotten around 2 of the four ports.

I knew the side decks were water logged.

I posted a ton of comments and ended up removing all cabin and deck hardware and having a professional fiberglass job done on the cabin roof and decks.

It cost me but it removed the balsa core and I will have peace of mind for many a year.

Mark

A brief epilogue: I rebedded all starboard ports (the two fixed and opening port closest to the bow) but the leak persists.

Thinking it's either the jib track or sail track just inboard of the rub rail. Both projects I intend to put off till off-season.

Thanks again for all the helpful replies! Also thanks to Christian for the guidance on the rebedding-helped a lot.

Leaks on Mt E29

I too did a total port light renewing. Those leaks dripped on the cushions. My leak under the galley turned out to be my chain plates.
Rick

Not to necropost (but here I am doing it anyway), but I wanted to update this thread based on what I discovered today while checking on her before Mathew's rains. Interestingly, we have a similar leak exactly opposite the one I originally posted about in the forward galley cabinet. I have checked all the nearby stanchions, the traveler, winch backing plates, etc.-tested them out last weekend when we received 3.5" of rain by placing paper towels below them in the headliner. All dry. Regardless, things were quite moist after the weather.

Despite not really thinking the hull-deck joint was to blame,e, I decided to remove the sections of the rub rail that were more or less even with the leak on the port side (forward galley cabinet). It appears that the PO or the one preceding him may have struck something (hard docking?) above the joint, pushing the deck side inward about an 1/8th to a 1/4 of an inch (see photo-a bit hard to see). This appears to have essentially provide a lip for rain to enter.

While I didn't have time to do the same on the starboard side (nav chart), the fact that the leak appears to enter the cabin at essentially the same spot makes me think the hull-deck joint on that side may well be the culprit (same deck hardware/paper towel tests performed there, too).

I believe your 1985 boat has several layers of roving on the inside, securing the deck and hull, so theoretically water should not ever be coming through the joint.

But we have boats where the rub rail screws actually penetrated, maybe check for that.

Hmmm.

It seems that the leak, on both sides, coincides with the scupper--which is designed to be the low point (although it seldom actually is).

If that is actually the low point, it would mean water from any source, maybe a long way away, would wind up there.

It takes all of us a long time to identify these leaks, but when we do, it is ridiculously satisfying out of all proportion.

Christian, as always your insight is greatly appreciated (I recently discovered your youtube videos-fantastic!). There was an array of screw lengths used to fasten the rub rail at the exposed section in the photo, ranging from 7/8"-ish to 1 1/4". I'm guessing this may have been the result of an attempted repair, previously. On the other side (nav chart), consistency with length and nothing longer than 7/8" (if not precisely, slightly less than the oval head 1" screws I used to compare).

There are indeed scuppers at the points that would coincide with the leaks. There is an adjacent scupper on each side of the boat forward of these. Not to the aft over the rail (nearest would be where there are cockpit scuppers).

Christian Williams said:

I believe your 1985 boat has several layers of roving on the inside, securing the deck and hull, so theoretically water should not ever be coming through the joint.

But we have boats where the rub rail screws actually penetrated, maybe check for that.

Hmmm.

It seems that the leak, on both sides, coincides with the scupper--which is designed to be the low point (although it seldom actually is).

If that is actually the low point, it would mean water from any source, maybe a long way away, would wind up there.

It takes all of us a long time to identify these leaks, but when we do, it is ridiculously satisfying out of all proportion.

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GREAT job

What a great way to chase done the leak.
Good work
Rick

Don't Discount the Rub Rail (screws and/or cracks)

I've been working on my remaining leaks this past winter now that my hatches, ports and fixed portlights have all been fixed or replaced. My persistent leak behind the Nav desk was oozing water from the interior laminate about 6 inches below the deck like a natural spring when it rained. I had assumed this was a previous repair from a collision but now I realize that I'm looking at the inside fiberglass covering the hull - deck joint. After I plugged the scupper in the toe rail just upstream (to prevent it draining on my fuel tank vent) the leak stopped. I removed a few screws from the rub rail in the area and applied some sealant and the leak has not come back.

On the opposite side, in the same location, behind the cracked Formica liner for the dish storage caddy that I just removed, I found water has also been weeping through the interior laminate bonding the hull to deck. I've read about this before (see post #7 in the link below):

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1891-Rebedding-Rub-Rail-89-E-38-200

I used blue tape over the port side scupper and re-sealed a couple of rub rail screws and this reduced but did not eliminate the leak. I'm planning to remove the rub rail on both sides and get a look at the exterior condition of the hull - deck joint.

Mark

markvone said:

I've been working on my remaining leaks this past winter now that my hatches, ports and fixed portlights have all been fixed or replaced. My persistent leak behind the Nav desk was oozing water from the interior laminate about 6 inches below the deck like a natural spring when it rained. I had assumed this was a previous repair from a collision but now I realize that I'm looking at the inside fiberglass covering the hull - deck joint. After I plugged the scupper in the toe rail just upstream (to prevent it draining on my fuel tank vent) the leak stopped. I removed a few screws from the rub rail in the area and applied some sealant and the leak has not come back.

On the opposite side, in the same location, behind the cracked Formica liner for the dish storage caddy that I just removed, I found water has also been weeping through the interior laminate bonding the hull to deck. I've read about this before (see post #7 in the link below):

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1891-Rebedding-Rub-Rail-89-E-38-200

I used blue tape over the port side scupper and re-sealed a couple of rub rail screws and this reduced but did not eliminate the leak. I'm planning to remove the rub rail on both sides and get a look at the exterior condition of the hull - deck joint.

Mark

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about the leak and glad you found the source. I know of an early-80's E-33 that had a similar rain leak on one side. Inside inspection confirmed that there was some porosity in the roving that joined the deck and hull. Likely just not quite enough resin in the layup of that corse material.

The outer seam was routed out and refilled with new adhesive sealant and the leak was cured. The original curved aluminum trim was re-used.

I wonder if this might maybe be attributable to the effort to tightly control the amount of resin used, given that these Ron Holland boats were being rigidly built to their 'design weight' to the extent that EY bragged about that achievement in full page print ads. Such an emphasis would put pressure on the construction guys.

Just a guess, from up here in the third balcony, and worth way less than $.02. :nerd: