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Moving Halyards back to the mast

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
I think I’ve finally got a plan for the spaghetti mess on my cabin top. Everything is currently lead aft accept for the outhaul, Cunningham, and 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] reefing line. The problem is, I never touch the headsail or spinnaker halyards underway, but I would like to be able to adjust the outhaul and Cunningham without going to the mast. My idea is to place one of the barrient 10 primary winches I just replaced with new Harken 20STs on the mast with a Spinlock double Mini Jammer. This would allow me to have the headsail and spinnaker halyards at the mast and share a winch. I also really like Christian’s idea of placing a small cam on the mast for the mainsail halyard so you can raise and lower at the main from the mast or the cockpit. Luckily, the barient 10s have been mounted on mast before, so there are already holes drilled and tapped for them. I should just have to make a contoured base, and install the jammer. Has anyone done tis before? Does anyone have any experience with the Spinlock Mini Jammers? Am I completely crazy for putting the headsail and spinnaker Halyards back on the mast?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Am I completely crazy for putting the headsail and spinnaker Halyards back on the mast?

Nope. Our furler headsails are semi-permanent once raised.

And if setting a spinnaker, somebody has to be at the mast anyhow to rig the chute.

Also reduces the number of flying elbows in the cramped cockpit of a 25-footer.


 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Makes sense to me. I spent the first year of ownership trying to decipher the archeological remains of previous owner's setups, layered atop one another. After five years, I'm just starting to have an opinion about the way I want it rigged. Once, I wanted all lines led to the cockpit, but now the mast seems like the only logical place for halyards and reefing lines. I may take your idea for the spin halyard, which I haven't had much chance to use yet. The existing spinnaker rigging doesn't seem very amenable to single-handing.

I still can't figure out how some of the previous guys stuff ever could have worked.
 

steven

Sustaining Member
I moved everything (halyards and reefing) back to mast on Indigo.
I find simple is good. No tangles, no snags.

--Steve
 

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
Done!

Thanks for all the words of encouragement. At first I thought it was going to be an easy job because there were tapped holes where the winch and cleat had already been mounted. However, I didn’t have the old base plate they were mounted with and after a few attempts, I realized it was going to be next to impossible to shape a new pad with 4 holes perfectly lined up with the existing holes in the mast. Luckily, I found a Selden winch pad designed for the job and it has a 5 degree rake that will help prevent override (a constant problem with them on the cabin top). It also took a while to line up the Spinlock Mini Jammer so the halyard fed the winch fair and left the exit hole without chafe. I’m happy with how it turned out, but I guess there’s only one way to find out…It’s finally time to sail!
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907Juice

Continuously learning
Interesting...

Well now I just saw this. Are you glad you moved your halyards back to the mast? Do you have a part number or anything for the winch plate?
 

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
It's been a great move. I haven't used the spinnaker yet (actually planning on trying it tomorrow for the first time), but the head sail halyard move has worked out really well. After last year's port side cabin top core replacement, I decided to take this year off from major projects and actually sail. When I get back to it, probably this fall, I'm going to replace the core on the starboard side which will involve removing the lines lead aft on that side.

If I remember right it was the smaller Selden pad. I think it was around $45. I bought it from fishery supply here in Seattle. I always seem to find random bits and pieces in their store that aren't available on-line and are usually reasonably priced. I think the pad was one of those finds because it wasn't like the pads on they're site or on Selden's. Maybe a carry over from previous years. The pad mentioned looks expensive, but after making the move I think it's worth it. Cleaning up the cockpit makes sailing so much better.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
I put my (roller-furling) genoa halyard back on the mast two seasons ago - with an old wire rope reel I got on eBay for a song. Rather than wire rope, the halyard is nice modern Amsteel line, quite thin, no need to splice to anything for handling, and it works great. I made a backing plate inside the mast out of 1/4" G10, and a mounting plate outside the mast out of the same stuff, painted to match the mast, and I'm quite sure it's significantly stronger than the original mast gear.
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Trickhat,

I bought this which looks a little different than the pic on the website. Before I destroy this plate, I want to make sure I’m doing it right. I’m ASSuming that I’m supposed to drill into this!?!?!? Can you tell me what you did? I’m thinking I’m going to drill the 6(?) holes and bolt the winch to the plate. Then I’m going to rivet it to the mast with the hardware that came with it. Right???
 

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Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
Yes, that looks more like the one I used. I used machine screws and backing bolts to attach the winch to the plate, so I had to install the winch on the pad before mounting to the mast. The bolt was tight to the mast, but there was room. Take your time aligning the clutch and winch with the halyard exit so you don't end up with unnecessary friction in the system or a winch that's difficult to use because it's too high or too low. Good luck!
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
Will a Barient 10 work on a E-32-3

I own a E32-3 and am looking to move both the spinnaker and jib halyards to the mast from the cockpit, so this thread is of interest to me. I see that a Barient #10 winch was used for this purpose on a E-29. Do you think I could use the same winch on my 32? My feeling is yes but I'd like to hear other opinions. In the end I want to clear up two paths for lines back to the cockpit and use them for reefing haul down lines so I can reef without leaving the cockpit.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I see that a Barient #10 winch was used for this purpose on a E-29. Do you think I could use the same winch on my 32?

My 32-III had a pair of Barient-10s (probably factory installed), and they worked well for over 30 years.

They're single-speed, relatively small and not-self-tailing, so they aren't as efficient as other winches might be, but certainly strong enough.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
Lewmar #8

My 32-III had a pair of Barient-10s (probably factory installed), and they worked well for over 30 years.

They're single-speed, relatively small and not-self-tailing, so they aren't as efficient as other winches might be, but certainly strong enough.

I just picked up one of the winches I need, a Lewmar #8 single speed non trailing, on ebay for a good price and it has a working load of 1000 pounds so I think it can handle rasing a spinnaker (which I don't use) or a wooden dinghy (onto the foredeck) which I do use. I'm not sure if I can use another Lewmar 8 for the jib halyard but I'm guessing that I can because all I need to do is to lift it to the top of the mast and then the halyard will be cleated off. Is my thinking correct or am I missing something?
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Old Lewmar #8's

It is my understanding (perhaps overly simplistic) that the winch number designates the mechanical advantage. I.e. to lift that 1000 lbs with a #8, you must exert 125 lbs of force. So, not really a lot of difference between #8 and #10. I have non-tailing #8's and generally only need the winch handle for the last couple of feet, unless the sail is under load. As a rule, on small boats like ours, if you are putting a lot of force into raising the sail, something is jammed and you are potentially causing damage somewhere.

A word of caution, in case you don't already know. Many old small Lewmar winches that are available on Ebay for a good price are the older style, such as the ones that came with my boat. They look just like the newer ones, except they have a slightly different bolt pattern and the winch socket is ever so slightly smaller than the sockets on every other winch in the known universe. Old Lewmar winch handles to fit these old winches cannot be purchased anywhere in the known universe. I did have one once, but it was a non-locking style and eventually, due to insufficient care, went over the side. I even tried dredging for it, with no luck. When buying used Lewmars, always test them to make sure that your winch handles will fit.

If that doesn't bother you, I have four old-style #8's that I will let go for practically nothing. Or I could put them on Ebay, play dumb, and unload them on some other unsuspecting victim.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
I'll need to wait and see what the lewmar 8 I bought on eBay looks like. I didn't know that about the winch handles. If it doesn't fit then it's going back.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
I still have a Barient-18 (two speed, non-self-tailing) available in the For Sale section.

Happy to make a deal on it - it's just sitting on my desk at home right now.
 

p.gazibara

Member III
Great move! Some lines belong in the cockpit - foreguys and pole lifts especially. Some are much simpler at the mast.

I think jib haylards belong at the mast, and arguably main halyards. If you have hank on jibs, you will need to be forward to handle them anyway. If you have a furler, you won't touch the halyard unless you are racing. I like having my main halyard there as well, but I can pull my main up by hand without using the winch unless I REALLY need to really tighten it to flatten the main. So I hardly use the winch for the main halyard anyway.

Our forward winches are on the cabintop. My halyards run through a spinlock jammer, down to the base of the mast, and through a block. From the block you can is the winch or, as I usually do, banjo the line tight.

If you are very good about maintaining and lubricating, no reason why main and jib halyards can't be run back, but when things start to hang up, it gets less than ideal.

On smaller boats, it sounds like spaghetti. Not much room already on that cabintop and many lines could be a nightmare.

Cinderella is mostly ocean going cruising these day, so simplicity is king.

For the record, it was nice having winches on the cabintop to quickly stabilize the mast when I lost my port lower shroud... Though I imagine I could have figured out how to use a mast mounted winch as well.

-p
 
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