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Routing water from mast to bilge?

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
With all the wild weather up here over the last couple of days, I've got time to "ponder" things (rather than, you know, actually get stuff done on the rig).

On the E32-III, the mast is keel-stepped, fitting onto a cast step-plate bolted onto a portion of the TAFG. It occurs to me that when water gets into the mast, there's no real way for it to get out.

Anecdotally, I'm told that water that finds its way into the mast tends to dribble out the bottom and onto the sole, "eventually" finding its way to the bilge.

Has anyone found a way to route that water directly into the bilge?

One approach would be to simply drill a hole in the step plate and through into the TAFG. But there have to be more elegant solutions, so I'm open to ideas. Especially now, while the rig is out of the boat.

Thanks!
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
I think the best answer depends on the exact model you have. On our 38 the previous owner seemed to have an issue with this, at least based on the water damage and mold I found on the cabin sole. All I did was drill a couple of weep holes through the metal plate (one forward, one aft) in line with the inside edge of the mast. And that seemed to do the trick, as I never had rain water seep out of the mast onto the cabin sole again. There is of course already a hole in the center of the plate for the wires to run, but for whatever reason it seems to be "uphill" from the edge, and still allowed the water to seep under the lip. The problem of course with my weep holes is that they will probably plug up after awhile, though in my case I pulled the mast every winter so I was always able to keep them clean and open.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, Bruce, I put off the problem on the last boat and still have it on this one. . Plus, the previous owner had an invisible drip from the sink faucet connections, which rotted out the floorboards on either side of the mast--which on the 381 is stepped prettymuch as yours is, with a nice collar around it

We had some rain, and the mast kept dribbling for days. I ran a wire into the aburdly small, rectangular drain port on the mast butt, cleared debris, and was treated to a bucket of water sluicing out. Who knew the mast could hold water--must have had a column a foot high inside.

STill, I can't see a way to route that drain port anywhere--it won;t accept any hose I know of.

One member, I recall, built up "dikes" on the sole to channel the flow toward a hole to the bilge.

There must be some elegant solution. Perhaps unblended whisky and ice is it.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Update with photos

The step fitting has a "channel" leading aft, which I presume to be there to allow water out of the mast.

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I had originally thought to drill through the center and let any water find its way from the mast into the grid and then into the bilge. However, in looking at the grid, I'm not sure where the water would go.

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Under the sole, the forwardmost and center areas have no limber holes. The one just aft of the step has a limber hole in the aft-most face (allowing water to get to the compartment where the electic bilge pump resides. But there is no limber hole in the forward face... which leads me to believe that any water that finds its way into the section of the grid under the mast step has no way out.

Options seem to be:
1) drill through the step, and drill a limber hole into the TAFG to allow any water in there to drain out (assuming that section isn't solid, which it might well be - anyone know?)
2) Install a hydraulic mast-jack so I can lift the rig in place periodically to clean out under there (just checking to see if you're paying attention)
3) leave it alone. The small amount of water that comes out of the mast isn't going to matter. Even in the northwest.

Currently leaning toward #3, unless someone has other input. Although I might pull one of the bolts, just to find out whether that area is solid or not.
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hmmm. It looks from the pictures that there was supposed to be a limber hole in the forward side of the keel-bolt bilge. Isn't that a molded "hole shape" shape in the photo?

Anyhow, you can check to see if there's standing water trapped forward of that bilge by looking through the rough rectangle opening hacked into the port athwartships settee wall (inside) by the factory. I think it is theoretical access to the forward keel bolt.

I checked many times for moisture in the hull access port under the V-berth drawers, where the hull is exposed. Never found a drop.

That suggested to me that water somehow drains aft to the bilge pump, possibly around voids between the TAFG and the hull.

I think on your boat, simple channels --lines of epoxy--would direct rainwater past the drill-holes and into (a notch?) in the floorboard over the forward keel bolt.

But then, I am currently paranoid on wet floorboards: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...I-quot-Delaminated-floorboards-4-minute-video
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author

Thanks, Christian.

Yes, I've never seen a hint of water in that inspection port under the v-berth, either. There's no hint of water under that rough-cut hole, either.

And, yes, it looks like there is a raised pad forward of that single keel-bolt, which might well have been for drilling a limber hole.

I think tonight (yay Daylight Savings Time!) I will pull one of the fasteners from the step plate and stick a coat-hanger down the hole. If it goes a ways (and/or comes back wet), I'll know there's a void under there that needs a limber hole. If not.... well, either way I'll have learned something.

Will probably fill those drill-holes while I'm there, too.

Edited to add: there's a (roughly) 3/4"-dia hole into the TAFG just in front of the step, too. My quess (?) is that's where the coax was originally routed - I come to that theory based on the size of the hole (big enough for a PL-259), and the fact that the rough-cut opening under the port settee seems positioned for access to the coax where it comes out of the conduit-tube. I might stick the coat-hanger down that one, too, just to see what I find...
 
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u079721

Contributing Partner
Wow, that's much less forgiving than the E38 set up. On the E38 the metal plate is suspended over the gap between two ridges or supports on the TAFG. So in my case drilling a hole to let the water out made sense. In your case I would sure be reluctant to just be drilling into the unknown. Perhaps you could learn what's underneath by removing a couple of the screws holding the plate down? At least you should learn if it's hollow down there.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Vertical access to hidden keelbolt?

That's a good possibility.

According to the manual, there are 6x 1" bolts, and 1x 1/2" bolt.

There isn't a lot of keel forward of the mast, so it's possible that's where the 1/2" bolt is. There's no way a socket for a 1" nut would fit into that hole. but a 1/2" socket might.

I'll shine a light down there and see what I can see.



In the meantime... look, progress on another front! New ZephyrWerks sheaves and pins should be here in a couple of days...

20160317_012441004_iOS.jpg
 
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GrandpaSteve

Sustaining Member
That's a good possibility.

According to the manual, there are 6x 1" bolts, and 1x 1/2" bolt.

There isn't a lot of keel forward of the mast, so it's possible that's where the 1/2" bolt is. There's no way a socket for a 1" nut would fit into that hole. but a 1/2" socket might.

I'll shine a light down there and see what I can see.



In the meantime... look, progress on another front! New ZephyrWerks sheaves and pins should be here in a couple of days...

attachment.php
i thought this boat had a black mast? Is that just primer or are you painting it white?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
32-3 1985 keel bolts location

I can't find a good picture, but this is where I believe the 7 bolts are:

1--Aftmost bilge, nearest the companionway ladder. On Bruce's boat this bolt is "small" and half-covered in layup and hard to see.

2--Next bilge forward, where the Whale pump pickup is.

2--Main bilge, where the electric bilge pump is.

1--Bilge just aft of mast base.

1--Just forward of mast base. Vertical access through a 1" hole drilled in the TAFG. Horizontal access through a rectangular opening in the forward wall of the port seat locker.

This last one hard to see and confirm. If I'm wrong, please correct for the record.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
i thought this boat had a black mast? Is that just primer or are you painting it white?

Continuing the hijack of my own thread (!), here's the "before" picture, and today's picture

before.jpg
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Tomorrow the whole rest of the spar gets lightly scrubbed with BonAmi, then wiped down with acetone and "sealed" with SparSeal, per instructions from Buzz Ballenger. If, as he says, the anodized surfaces come out looking like the spar has been Armor-All'd, I'll be very pleased.
 

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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
1--Just forward of mast base. Vertical access through a 1" hole drilled in the TAFG. Horizontal access through a rectangular opening in the forward wall of the port seat locker.

This last one hard to see and confirm.

Update - after trying in vain to get a flash iPhone photo to work, I dangled a pen-light on a string into that hole, and can confirm that there is a keelbolt there forward of the mast base. There's an inch or so of water in there, too, which apparently has no path to the main bilge.

In related news, I drilled an exploratory hole down the center of the mast step to see if there was a possible path for water to make it from the mast step into the bilge. 4" in, still in solid glass... so that section of the TAFG under the mast step is either completely solid, or massively thick. Decided to leave well-enough alone, and filled the hole with marinetex.

New plan is to file a small half-round groove in the aft edge of the step plate, so water can at least dribble more efficiently out of the extrusion. I'll worry about where it goes from there "some other day"... current thinking is that it "ain't broke" in any substantive way.
 
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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Finally!

Rig went back up yesterday morning.

I had estimated when the boat arrived that it would take 8-10 days to do what I wanted to get done on the mast. And in hindsight, that estimate wasn't far off . What I didn't anticipate was that it would take 4 months (!) to find those 8-10 days, in between travel for work, "The Wettest Winter in Seattle History (tm)" and scheduling issues at the yard. But... she's a sailboat again, and I'm happy about that.

Among other things

-- all hardware removed, cleaned/polished, reinstalled with new fasteners, bedded with lanacote and fastened using tefgel or durolac
-- corrosion remediated (cleaned, acid-washed, primed and painted) at masthead, spreader bases, spreader tips, vang, gooseneck and mast step
-- new wiring
-- new coax (LMR-240 ultraflex - great stuff!)
-- new Vesper dual-use antenna (VHF+AIS)
-- new LED masthead light
-- new LED combo (steaming, foredeck) light
-- new sheaves and sheave-pins
-- furler gear serviced (cleaned, inspected)
-- sail tracks (Tides, plus Kenyon) removed, cleaned, reinstalled
-- all standing rigging inspected by rigger
-- all turnbuckles disassembled, cleaned, inspected, lubed
-- all clevis pins replaced with new
-- entire spar scrubbed and sealed with 'spar seal'
-- cleaned out mast step, shaped center of casting with epoxy to help funnel water out from under spar
-- new spreader-tip boots (including "bgary customized" ones at the lowers. I'm fairly proud of them)
-- probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting (it'll come out in therapy, I'm sure...)

...and a coin under the mast to help keep it all together

End result... absolutely nothing looks different. And it might not actually *be* any different.

But I now know my rig inside and out, and hopefully it will be good for another 30 years (knock on wood)

B

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bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Do we get a picture of the custom spreader boots?

(grinnning) why, of course!

Nothing fancy, really. Just didn't love any of the "normal" options: squeezing the upper and intermediate shrouds together so they fit into a normal rubber boot, or buying an oversized boot that they'll both fit into, or making up a custom leather boot (I don't personally like leather boots - they tend to keep moisture, IMO).

So I experimented with a couple of cuts in a standard-sized boot intended to allow the intermediate shroud to have a "fair" path through the spreader tip while the boot itself is secured to the upper. It turns out if you slice the rubber along the line of the intermediate, and then open up the hole at the end of each slice to allow the wire through (and keep the slice from extending any further).... it seems to work out okay.

I'm actually fairly happy with how they came out. This is a "medium" TaylorMade boot, sliced at top and bottom on the inboard side to accommodate the intermediate shroud, zip-tied top/bottom/inboard, and then wrapped with self-amalgamating tape. (sorry for the crappy picture)

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