Holding Tank/Head Removal Ericson 27

I have a 1975 Ericson 27. The head and holding tank, I want to remove and replace with a porta potty for a few months, then a composting head. Whats the best way to remove the entire system to include piping and electrical/macerator, etc.... The boat yard wants 10-12 hours and $110 an hour....whew!

lonokai said:

I have a 1975 Ericson 27. The head and holding tank, I want to remove and replace with a porta potty for a few months, then a composting head. Whats the best way to remove the entire system to include piping and electrical/macerator, etc.... The boat yard wants 10-12 hours and $110 an hour....whew!

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Before re-formatting the whole head plumbing layout in my boat, I had to remove all the old (original!) hoses and the tank. Based on only my one little project data point... you will want to run water into that old tank and do pump-outs until you can be certain that: 1) the tank is empty and only a little clean water residue remains, and 2) that all the hoses are empty or holding nothing but pure water.
Do not ask how I arrived at this conclusion... !


Have rubber gloves on hand and some strong soap for washing up before leaving the scene of the crime, also... :0

OTOH, as you've figured out already, there is some serious coin to be saved by doing this work yourself.

Cheers,
Loren

lonokai said:

I have a 1975 Ericson 27. The head and holding tank, I want to remove and replace with a porta potty for a few months, then a composting head. Whats the best way to remove the entire system to include piping and electrical/macerator, etc.... The boat yard wants 10-12 hours and $110 an hour....whew!

Click to expand...

If you are completely sold on going the composting head route, then freely ignore the following suggestion. But if not...might I suggest that you replace your head/holding tank setup with an MSD porta potty, such as a Thetford 555P? This is a porta potty with a 5.5 gallon built-in holding tank that can be plumbed for pump out/overboard discharge, just like your current tank. Because the porta potty uses *much* less flush water than a conventional setup like you currently have, you would need a 15-20 gal. holding tank to give you the equivalent capacity. So what you could do is remove and discard your existing holding tank (thereby reclaiming the space for storage) and plumb the 555P right into your existing hoses. Or, while you are at it, you could renew the hoses but use the same through hull, pump out deck fitting, and macerator as before.

The MSD porta potty is utterly reliable, can be removed from the boat easily if you ever needed/wanted to do an off-site "deep cleaning," does not have odor problems (or, certainly no more so than the conventional setup), and is inexpensively replaced should that ever prove necessary. (But given how simple these things are I'm not sure why that would happen anyway.) Having used both setups I see absolutely no downside to it. Something for you to consider, at least.

$$$$

Is the yard planning on removing the through hulls, deck fittings and filling all of the holes? If so, the price is not out of line. Simply pulling the head, hoses and tank and capping the through hulls. That could be done in under three hours with a little planning.

Afrakes said:

Is the yard planning on removing the through hulls, deck fittings and filling all of the holes? If so, the price is not out of line. Simply pulling the head, hoses and tank and capping the through hulls. That could be done in under three hours with a little planning.

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Al is quite right. If all they are going to do is remove the hoses and rip out the tank then no way should that take 10-12 hours and $110/hour for that kind of work is absurd. Removing the hoses is far, far easier than attaching them because you can just cut them out. Yes, it's a disagreeable job since we are talking about a head. Flush the system with fresh water as best you can, wear rubber gloves, and put a dab of Vicks VapoRub under your nose if you need to! Have some appropriately sized wooden bungs handy so you can plug the ends of the hose once it is cut. Also, as Al mentioned, you will need to cap off any through hulls that you are leaving in place but unused. Make sure your sea cocks are closed before removing the hoses. (And, since this is a new boat, you should exercise them to make sure they work properly before you go yanking any hoses off of them. You don't want to discover that they are frozen in the open position, for obvious reasons.)

When I bought my E26 the first thing to go was the existing head system. The PO had installed a bladder holding tank and even left me with it half full. (Yum! :rolleyes_d Within a couple of hours I had the head and bladder tank removed the disposed of. (The head made a satisfying "clunk" when I tossed it in the marina dumpster.) I kept some of the original hoses for a short time with the new MSD porta potty, but at my first haul out I replaced all the hoses with shorter, more direct runs, and replaced the hand pump with a macerator for overboard discharge. I also replaced the wretched PVC plumbing valves and one plastic through hull that Ericson in their infinite wisdom (cheapness?) installed on the boat. All in all not that terrible of a job and something I'd never have paid someone $1100 or $1200 to do!

Thanks so much....

I appreciate everyone's comments. FYI the reason I am considering the composting toilet is simply because I am seeking simplicity with regards the plumbing and do not like all the plumbing with poop flowing through it to a holding tank.....plus I am attempting to rid myself of 40 years of poop smell from the holding tank. The previous owner says he doesnt know how old the tank is...but its located in the forward v-berth and the stench is enough to prevent me from sleeping on board....
I will only be using the replacement toilet in "emergencies" unless on longer journeys......which is when I will have to empty the containers.....but in that case...I know exactly where all the poop and pee is and its not floating around various and sundry pipes.

Alan, I like your suggestion of the porta potti...Its much cheaper than the composters...and also (based on the videos) seems like it would be less hassle to empty. And I can get a hold down kit for it. And at less than $150 its worth it, Thanks for that suggestion.

Hoses

Our 87' 28 had a whiff of head that was bothersome. I did the recommended warm wet rag test on the hoses and found that they were the culprit. Ripped them out and replaced them. Problem solved. Lived with a porta potty on an earlier boat for a few years. Wouldn't want to go back to it.

Al (Afrakes)

Thanks for that....I guess, as a newbie, I much to learn....a lot of you have all gone through these things already.... I'm just trying to (forgive the pun), dump the smell, so I can stay on the boat without gagging. We'll see how it all turns out.

If the through-hulls work, close them. Then just cut/rip/saw everything out and throw it away.

Strong cleaners, and now the boat smells good. Clean the bilge, too. Clean everything. Citrus cleaner from Home Depot, 1.4 miles away. Gallons of it.

Now that you have a new boat , install no head at all for a while.

Boat-peeing is overrated as a primary cause of yachting enjoyment on the part of guests.

Women guests put it off anyhow, preferring a more civilized shoreside environment.

If a great deal of beer is being utilized, men like the use the overhand, overside method.

Sailors have sailed around the world with a bucket.

Catalina Island has toilet facilities.

Heads are for living aboard with cats.

I exaggerate but not as much as others will claim.

lonokai said:

Alan, I like your suggestion of the porta potti...Its much cheaper than the composters...and also (based on the videos) seems like it would be less hassle to empty. And I can get a hold down kit for it. And at less than $150 its worth it, Thanks for that suggestion.

Click to expand...

The MSD porta potty is cheaper and less hassle. But as for emptying it, the whole point of the MSD version is that you can plumb it for overboard discharge (when 3 miles out) and/or with a deck fitting for when you are at a pump out station. You do *not* want to be schlepping a porta potty tank around for manual disposal. For one thing, a 5.5 gallon tank full of sewage will weigh a ton. Secondly, it would be a horrendous mess to dump in, e.g., a shore side toilet. And third, almost no facilities will let you do that. (Your marina almost certainly won't.)

For you the simplest procedure would be as follows: (1) Rip everything out that's currently installed: the head, the tank, all hoses, etc. (2) Install an electric macerator pump in a suitable location. (Something like this: http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--macerator-pump--13997911). Or, if you want to go really cheap I have a manual Whale MK-V hand pump in near-new condition that I'll sell you for a lot less than that. (3) Plumb the MSD porta potta to the input side of the pump. (4) Plumb the output side of your pump to your existing through hull. (5) Run a vent line from the vent fitting on the porta potty to your existing vent fitting on the boat. (5) Have a beer and call it done.

With this setup you will need to go offshore 3 miles to dump it. That's what I always do anyway, since the only time I use the head is when I'm at Catalina and I empty it on the way home. And besides: I find that the pump out station is broken down more than it works anyway (in my area, at least).

Additional Point: Because the porta potty uses its own built-in fresh water reservoir, there is no need to hook up a connection to a raw water intake through hull/seacock. On my boat this seacock also served as the drain for the sink in the head. Therefore, I kept the seacock in that position but the only thing plumbed to it now is the sink. If your through hull is dedicated to supplying water to the current head then you will no longer need it. You can either just cap it off or remove it and glass over the hole when you haul out the boat.

Alan Gomes said:

The MSD porta potty is cheaper and less hassle. But as for emptying it, the whole point of the MSD version is that you can plumb it for overboard discharge (when 3 miles out) and/or with a deck fitting for when you are at a pump out station. You do *not* want to be schlepping a porta potty tank around for manual disposal. For one thing, a 5.5 gallon tank full of sewage will weigh a ton. Secondly, it would be a horrendous mess to dump in, e.g., a shore side toilet. And third, almost no facilities will let you do that. (Your marina almost certainly won't.).......

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Thanks...I see the parts list and the pump out kit....I'll have to make sure I have the 550P MSD.....

lonokai said:

Thanks...I see the parts list and the pump out kit....I'll have to make sure I have the 550P MSD.....

Click to expand...

Yes, that's the one I have. (I think in my previous post I wrongly said it was a 555P.) The MSD designation means it will have everything you need for hooking it up.

It's a great unit. The one caveat is that the hold down bracket is very flimsy plastic. On my boat a friend of mine produced a nice stainless bracket for me and it is rock solid. You want it to be mounted solidly so that if you are pounding in a chop you don't launch the head with a full holding tank across the cabin. :0 But other than the mounting hardware it's terrific.

Ridding the boat of head odor.

Lonokai, If at the end of the day, you are interested in is making the boat not smell bad from head associated odors, please do consider a much more economical and far easier alternative to what you might be considering. I have come up with a tried and true method of cleansing an entire head system of ALL head odors and keeping it that way for as long as you own the boat and beyond. The best part is that you can keep the system exactly as it is, it's dirt cheap and t's easy to do yourself in less than 30 minutes. There are two steps involved, ridding the cause of the odor and then keeping it away for good. I know this sounds like a miracle product that you can buy for $99.99 for a limited time only but it ain't, I doubt it will cost you more than $10.00. This might be especially good for you to know as a newcomer to boating and the list, so if you're interested further, email me back channel at glynjudson@roadrunner.com and I'll give you all the step by step details including mixture amounts, etc. I also invite you to come to our boat right here in Marina del Rey to see or should I say, smell for yourself. I've used this same method on previous boats as well as our current one for well over 20 years and smells are now only a distant nightmare. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

AirHead

lonokai said:

I have a 1975 Ericson 27. The head and holding tank, I want to remove and replace with a porta potty for a few months, then a composting head. Whats the best way to remove the entire system to include piping and electrical/macerator, etc.... The boat yard wants 10-12 hours and $110 an hour....whew!

Click to expand...

I did this myself and installed an airhead. Not too hard. First empty the holding tank. Then take each item out one by one. I'm assuming the boat is out of the water. If so, you have no worries when you get to the seacock. If it's in the water, make sure the raw water inlet is closed . Otherwise, should only take an hour or so to remove the entire system.

Head Plumbing

Hi Respected Sailors If you pull that tank please consider that the plumbing fittings are an inch or so above the bottom of the tank. There will be a couple of quarts (at least) of material in the very bottom of the tank when you hoist it out. I overlooked that fact years ago and the crew made me pay dearly with a huge cleanup effort. Glyn has the chemical suggestion right. That stuff works very well. We installed a negative solar air fan (Nicro I think) in the head and a positive fan in front of the head and I have not smelled a head odor since 1985. Those fans run all night and all day and make very little noise until they are 6-10 years old. BTW the reason we had to pull the tank was to patch a crack caused by the hose clamps being too tight. Used plumbers goop and it has held up like a miracle material.
Best Regards
Pat
1981 E28+ Universal 5411

recent change out

I recently bought a 1977 Ericson, and in the purchase, got much more than the boat, the previous owner apparently didn't know the holding tank could actually be pumped out.

Anyway, I went back and forth with upgrades, and in a perfect world, probably would've bought the composting toilet by AirHead. I spoke with the owner of that company, and after many measurements, photos and head scratching, turned out that their system wouldn't fit my 32-2 existing set up in the head.

I opted for the cheaper solution, which has 100% removed the smell from 40 years of neglect:
1)remove the old system as suggested, with a pair of gloves, holding your breath and cutting out the old lines.
2) if you can salvage your existing tank and get it cleaned to your liking, save this
3) replace existing tank if necessary
4) repaint the interior hatch where that tank has been stored, it's no doubt had a leak and over time, the smell has escaped the hold
5) replace with new lines
6) I've initiated a new rule that #2 happens only in an emergency (and gets pumped immediately at the next opportunity)
7) My plan is that if I keep up with it, and flush it regularly, the smell won't be a problem (a friend also suggested flushing it with vinegar after a flush)
8) I now pump out, then run a hose into the pump out hole, twice filling the tank and pumping out again. This assures me that ONLY fresh water is left on the bottom of the tank

Good luck with the upgrades!

Since pump-out facilities are limited, I have just stopped using my head, unless I actually go somewhere. But flushing everything out with dock water is a good idea. If your boat is so plumbed, I'd add a quick rinse of the line to the macerator and through-hull, which might accumulate stuff through being a dead-end under normal conditions. I don't get any odor in the cabin, but it can get a little musty down inside the forward lockers, which are all connected. And that includes the hanging locker with all of my clothes . I even hung one of those pine tree car (de?)odorizers down there.

I'm not sure I'd use vinegar, unless you just like the smell. Vinegar is an excellent food source for bacteria, when diluted in water. It's also acidic, rather than alkaline like bleach. But that should only matter if you're cleaning glass or stainless steel. BTW: I have been paid to do product testing on a dozen or so "holding tank deodorizers." For some reason, the smell of those things all seem awful to me. At least the intense blue dye gives a visual tracer for any leaks.

I was almost sold on one of those composting heads, until I started reading through the testimonials, and they were talking about storing "a couple of 5-gallon buckets of feces" and "gallon milk jugs of urine" on deck. Um. Just no. No, thank you.

Christian Williams said:

If the through-hulls work, close them. Then just cut/rip/saw everything out and throw it away.

Strong cleaners, and now the boat smells good. Clean the bilge, too. Clean everything. Citrus cleaner from Home Depot, 1.4 miles away. Gallons of it.

Now that you have a new boat , install no head at all for a while.

Boat-peeing is overrated as a primary cause of yachting enjoyment on the part of guests.

Women guests put it off anyhow, preferring a more civilized shoreside environment.

If a great deal of beer is being utilized, men like the use the overhand, overside method.

Sailors have sailed around the world with a bucket.

Catalina Island has toilet facilities.

Heads are for living aboard with cats.

I exaggerate but not as much as others will claim.

Click to expand...

"The trouble with dames on board is you can't pee over the side." -HUMPHREY BOGART

Hi Glyn,

I know you have posted your gourmet head oder recipe here many times, I think it's a good one and having it connected to a thread like this could be helpful others down the road. Thanks.