Where do you plug in your 12 Volt Stuff on E35-3

"Alan's links (above) are great info. Essentially, a $10 cigar-lighter plug-in inverter is underwired for its potential, may not trip the breaker if it fails, and has an unreliable internal fuse."

See also http://cartech.about.com/od/Power/fl/Can-I-Use-a-Cigarette-Lighter-Inverter.htm for more discussion.

Apologies for the blanket statement and I'll amend my humble opinion post with "generally not a really good idea."

I've been looking into 12v to 12v dc converters for efficiency and to compliment (not charge) the macbook 12v battery through the 12v plug. I've been presuming these systems are internally fused, but am now second guessing this thinking.

Anyone have deeper insight or experience with these devices?

Two cents worth of wisdom is appreciated,

Max

Speaking of Batteries, who has what?

"Ericsons are way under batteried for inverters. The power draw for most inverters is very high and the battery bank very small."

So when looking at the boat, I saw two batteries under aft dinette seat. I was feeling good. My manual says standard was 105 amp Deep Cycle. I didn't take any photo's of them (dumb).
So what size group is standard and are they in plastic trays that only fit one size in case I want to buy a new one as a spare. How many cranking amps needed for the Universal 21hp diesel?

Have people upgraded their battery banks? Is there room? Have folks started using dual purpose (starter/house) batteries? Three batteries? Bigger batteries?

The way I see it, lighting and electronics are way more energy efficient now, but we have more gadgets...so wouldn't things kind of even out?

What a great discussion on inverters, charging small devices and GFCI. My #250 e35-3 manual says I have a GFCI breaker. Maybe I'll buy a spare just in case.

Doug

There is a lot of opinion on all that, some of it conflicting, and yes the general trend is more and more batteries.

In fact, one Group 27 (that's the physical size, the dimensions) of 105 amp rating is fine to start an M25 diesel. That single battery will also handle all house needs, if recharging by shore current or alternator is available every few days.

A boat with two G27s therefore can reserve the second battery as a backup--and probably never use it at all.

Yes, LEDS and low-powered nav gear have really helped. The need for a bigger battery bank comes from refrigeration, radar, self steering, windlass, SSB, AC, inverters, microwaves.

Less is more, if you don't need more.

Hi Christian....how many batteries to Hawaii?

And did you have a spare?

I agree, less is more. When waaaay young I sailed a 37 foot ferro-cement home-built down and up the Atlantic Coast with a transistor radio. (AM/FM/Weather) The good-ole days.

Doug

Two G27s. One for all needs, never used the other. Daily draw 20-25 amps. More on my setup here.

Geese Christian

The link to your setup and beyond are serious "Coffee Reading" definitely not "Scotch Reading"
I'll try more in the morning but seriously good stuff. Thanks!

I have a hard wired inverter and big battery capacity to power it, but I sure didn't get it to charge a phone. I gave up golf due to the invention of the cell phone, I'll be damned if I'm letting it invade my boat.

Sorry to vent, but I think we might be missing the bigger picture here.

Yeah but for those of us with kids and grandkids, and if anchoring out or cruising in more remote places, a cell phone is pretty critical to keep in touch or respond to family emergencies. Nice when it's not needed but you never know.
Frank

Not to mention the number of apps that make the boating experience safer.

http://www.uscg.mil/mobile/ - float plans, safety checklists, requests for vessel inspection, Nav Rules, call for help

http://www.boatus.com/towing/app.asp - current conditions, lat/long, position sharing, call for help

http://inavx.com/ and a multitude of similar GPS programs for navigation with full access to NOAA charts

Including https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/navlink-us/id804666182?mt=8

And NMEA data apps NMEA lite and NMEA remote

The list can go on and on (and does) http://i-marineapps.blogspot.com/p/top-5-best-marine-data-apps.html

Tide apps http://appadvice.com/appguides/show/ocean-tide-apps

Weather apps https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/weathertrack-grib/id417401887?mt=8 Wind speed & direction forecast, wave height, direction and period, precipitation, current, air and sea temps,

SailFlow https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sailflow/id555309964?mt=8

Training apps https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sailing-quiz-hd/id488657001?mt=8

I've recently installed a wireless Digital Yachts iAIS modem to network AIS and NMEA information to ipad and phone, interfaced with a couple of the applications listed above.

There is a phone in there somewhere, redundant to the VHF, but damned if I know where it is.

Keeping these devices charged is not required to fill the sails, but charging them keeps the filled sails required...

Ditto Frank and Fool...What phone? You can use it for a phone, how cool is that!

I certainly agree with Pat that I don't want to be a slave to my cell-phone while out on the boat. But if I need to call and am within a couple miles of shore, I can. For better or worse, our Coast Guard in the Great Lakes is getting more and more distress calls by cell phone vs VHF.

As to the real uses of a cell phone...(at very low energy draw) to add to Frank's great list.

Camera / Video
Restaurant Reviews
Marine Traffic.com for longer range AIS data...(near shore)
Intellicast for longer range storm radar...(near shore)
Docking with Speakers for Portable Waterproof Music...(anywhere)
Navionics iPhone to back up my OpenCPN Chartplotter on Laptop...(free Canadian Charts whoopee) (anywhere)

Doug

And although I hesitate to add this...it is important!

I can get away from work a bit more often to go sailing, knowing that I can tether my laptop to my iphone and get on the internet and attempt to fix things in a pinch if the office is struggling.

I know, I should spend the effort to train my staff to get along without me. Well I'm trying...and I do know how to delegate and let go...but it does take some time.

Doug177 said:

I can get away from work a bit more often to go sailing, knowing that I can tether my laptop to my iphone and get on the internet and attempt to fix things in a pinch if the office is struggling.

I know, I should spend the effort to train my staff to get along without me. Well I'm trying...and I do know how to delegate and let go...but it does take some time.

Click to expand...

+1 - No cell and data service means less sailing days, sad but true. If people can reach me and I can solve their problems they don't notice that I'm away from the office .

I added a 12 volt plug at the nav station and one in the cockpit near the engine panel. As Christian said - one battery does a lot of work, however I am not cruising long distance; I know I am usually going to have shore power or run the engine within 3 days or so.

I run my Lenovo laptop off of a 12volt power supply - less draw than an inverter to AC:

http://amzn.com/B00ARP15PC

I keep my phone plugged in in the cockpit while sailing.

OpenCPN with a GPS puck on the PC is fun at the nav station. (Garmin 78sc and cruising guide charts in the cockpit).

http://amzn.com/B000PKX2KA

I wish there was a USB AIS receiver that was affordable.

Doug177 said:

I can get away from work a bit more often to go sailing, knowing that I can tether my laptop to my iphone and get on the internet and attempt to fix things in a pinch if the office is struggling.

I know, I should spend the effort to train my staff to get along without me. Well I'm trying...and I do know how to delegate and let go...but it does take some time.

Click to expand...

My situation is along the same lines as yours, Doug, though perhaps more so. Hope this is keeping with the spirit of this thread, but here goes....

I'm a University prof. and an important aspect of what I do is research and writing. In fact, I personally love the research and writing part of the job much more than classroom lecturing. I have done a good deal of writing on my boat, which is a wonderful environment for that. Most of my trips to Catalina, for example, are "working vacations." I'll reward myself with the sail over and back and spend most of the time at the Island hitting the books and laptop. Working at the table in shorts with a cup of coffee is exquisite! And there are also the fun little diversions that punctuate my work day, such as study breaks where I'll tour around the cove in the dinghy, or meet up with my harbor patrol buddy (and former student) in Avalon for an after dinner pipe/cigar in the cockpit. But the work times are incredibly productive because I have concentrated, uninterrupted time to think and write. At the end of it all is often a great ripping broad reach home, which caps off the trip quite nicely. Sometimes I'll coordinate the return with a my wife, son, or friend, who will take the shuttle boat over to join me for the last day or two and for the romp back to the barn.

Now, a key component of that is having a decent internet connection and the ability to power the laptop. The internet connection is handled through a wifi hotpot (my carrier happens to be Verizon). I have more than adequate battery capacity to get me well past a week on the hook/mooring. The need for cell service does limit me somewhat as to which coves I frequent because cell coverage at Catalina is limited. But my main haunts--Avalon and Two Harbors/Cat Harbor--are solid.

I guess we all use our boats somewhat differently and there is not necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way in regard to the technology we need or desire. For me it's great to be able to merge my passions in this way rather than having to choose between them. I'm thankful for the technology that allows me to do this to such great effect.

Tesla Battery

When I bought Cinderella (35-2) she was not wired to charge/plug anything in when away from the dock (1 110v plug while dockside). Granted she was set up to race, so all wires were the shortest run possible and the fuse panel is in the most inconvenient place possible.

I have since installed a 12v USB marine grade plug on the bulkhead in the cockpit to plug in the trust iPad that runs Navionics. Having one 12v plug really saves the battery and reminds the guests to charge their phones before boarding.

I have since wired several 110v plugs in pertinent locations for live-aboard life. I am also on the list to get one of those new Tesla house batteries and hope to wire that directly to my 110 system, and keep the 12v system solely for engine starting, I will keep you updated on how that goes.

-P

E35-3 Batteries and Inverters

I wish I could write with the humor and elegance of Christian. Since my skills are questionable at best, I'll just give you the facts.

Our boat is used more as a floating hotel. I would like to sail it more. They (kids) would like a place to recharge and be fed.

In 2011 we installed a Magnum MM1212 1200 watt inverter/charger. It was placed in the small triangular space under the nav station seat. We knew going in that our 2 group 27 12 volt batteries were not up to the task. Since they were only 2 years old we left them in place. Spring of 2013 we installed to 2 6 volt 280 amp hour batteries from US Battery. These were marketed as floor polishing batteries and are a bit taller then the group 27's they replaced. We had the height to spare but very little width or length. The house bank is located in a vented locker under the settee seat that backs up to the nav station. We have one group 27 starting battery that is located on a shelf in the starboard lazarette.

When first installed the inverter was used frequently. Blow dryer for the wife or daughter, A/C for television and antenna and occasional inflating of a inner tube or float. We have since installed a 12 volt tv and drip dry is in fashion. The inverter is rarely used now and the batteries have been a god send. We go 4 days between charging and that's with kids listening to music all day, charging cell phones, charging laptops, running led lights and watching a movie at night.

I have converted 6 cigar lighters, to USB charging receptcales. Each is wired with an inline fuse and all of them are on the same circuit breaker on the master panel. The stereo panel has two mounted next to the head unit in the picture below:


Please forgive the shadow...

This works for the way we use the boat. I'm sure it will make a true salt cringe, but, my family is happy so I'm happy.

GrandpaSteve said:

I run my Lenovo laptop off of a 12volt power supply - less draw than an inverter to AC:

http://amzn.com/B00ARP15PC

I keep my phone plugged in in the cockpit while sailing.

Click to expand...

Thanks Grandpa! I run my OpenCPN on a Thinkpad E545 and just ordered the 12 volt charger. Will save me the inversion loss.

Cell Phone Booster Effectiveness

Alan Gomes said:

Now, a key component of that is having a decent internet connection and the ability to power the laptop. The internet connection is handled through a wifi hotpot (my carrier happens to be Verizon). I have more than adequate battery capacity to get me well past a week on the hook/mooring. The need for cell service does limit me somewhat as to which coves I frequent because cell coverage at Catalina is limited. But my main haunts--Avalon and Two Harbors/Cat Harbor--are solid.

Click to expand...

I like the way you think Alan! (work is best done on a sailboat) Has anybody sailing a little offshore tried a cell phone signal booster like the Wilson models. We do a trade show for Art Supplies in Columbus Ohio where they charge a zillion bucks to hook up to convention center internet. Most of the booths cannot get a signal inside the steel building to process charge cards but we just buzz along without a care in the world with our little booster antenna clamped to the uprights of our booth. 4 bars solid 4g. Without it zip. I have no idea how much power the booster draws in amps. I will hook it up to my kill-a-watt tester tmrw.

I am wondering if anybody has any data on how much further offshore they can get a solid signal with a booster or should that be my task this next summer. Yes I bars are not accurate, I will use DB's.

Doug

Boosted 3-4 Miles?

The question mark in the Title tells the story, because the answer is quite subjective, as we were never certain how far offshore we were when we lost our signal before we had the Wilson Sleek, nor are we certain of our distance offshore when we lost signal with the Wilson Sleek. We do believe we had a signal for a longer duration and picked it up sooner with the Sleek than without.

We are 100% certain there is no signal in the middle of Lake Michigan. When the signal is lost, we enter the equivalent of The Dark Side of the Moon, with no Pink Floyd. When the signal eventually flickers back to life, we experience a mix of excitement and dread, as we'll learn where we are in relation to the rest of the fleet. Sometimes the news is good, sometimes not so good...

The pics show the Sleek mounted on the rail and the booster cradle mounted in the Nav Station

Grizz said:

The question mark in the Title tells the story, because the answer is quite subjective, as we were never certain how far offshore we were when we lost our signal before we had the Wilson Sleek, nor are we certain of our distance offshore when we lost signal with the Wilson Sleek. We do believe we had a signal for a longer duration and picked it up sooner with the Sleek than without.

We are 100% certain there is no signal in the middle of Lake Michigan. When the signal is lost, we enter the equivalent of The Dark Side of the Moon, with no Pink Floyd. When the signal eventually flickers back to life, we experience a mix of excitement and dread, as we'll learn where we are in relation to the rest of the fleet. Sometimes the news is good, sometimes not so good...

The pics show the Sleek mounted on the rail and the booster cradle mounted in the Nav Station

Click to expand...

Hmmmm...I wonder whether that rig would boost the cell signal enough to allow me to get a solid connection from some of the outlying coves at Catalina where the terrain greatly attenuates the reception? Any southern Calif. folks have experience using one of these (or something like it) around the Island?

I've been looking at cell booster threads on Lake Michigan sites Alan

Seems that the $199 weBoost Booster with the $44 Truckers (taller-bigger) Mirror Mount Antenna gives sailors the most satisfaction. I am surprised there has not been more of a response yet from your neck of the woods. Sailors here who need internet think they are well worth your while.

Doug