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907Juice

Continuously learning
Hey all, Juice here again. I'm a new owner of an 82 Ericson 25+. I'm working through the boat and one thing I've noticed is my alcohol stove doesn't appear to be burning properly. It is the older pump pressurized style. It woofs a lot even after it warms up. I've looked through the Internet and can't find any info on this situation or how to address it. Does anyone know how or if it is possible to tune it? Im pretty sure it is the original stove with the boat.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Get rid of it - is the best way. All I know who have one have almost set themselves and boat on fire.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I will grant that many boaters DO seem to get good use of those old pressure alcohol stoves.
I would not want one on any boat I own or crew on.

I actually know a fellow that was aboard a sailboat with one that burned up and sank, up by Tacoma many years ago -- same old problem -- there was a hidden small leak in the pressurized alcohol line to the rear of the range and the alcohol caught fire. The pale blue flames were not noticed until the cabin was too involved to enter. Other boaters rescued the crew with no harm.

It's not the fuel, just the type of burner. Our boat came with an Origo non-pressure alcohol stove and we have been using it for cooking and baking for 20 years. Quite safe since there's no pressure to cause a "flare up".

Or, if changing stoves, plan B would be to install a propane system and put in a propane galley range. I had one on our prior boat and liked it a lot. There is more safety stuff to worry about and maintain, but it's a great fuel also.

Whatever you decide, be safe.


Loren

ps: good previous thread: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?11570-Musings-about-our-ORIGO&referrerid=28
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Propane+

Oh, the forum software says that message is too short.

OK, propane, "thumbs up."

I grew up priming and pumping alcohol stoves, and as I recall we were on fire most of the time.
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Well ok then... You've made up my mind. The woofing scared me so we have been using a portable Coleman stove or the bbq grill. Prob keep doing that till we can get an Orion or something like that.
 
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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Well ok then... You've made up my mind. The woofing scared me so we have been using a portable Coleman stove or the bbq grill. Prob keep doing that till we can get an Orion or something like that.
Is the Coleman stove one that uses the green disposable propane bottles? Don't think that's too safe to have down below either.

Non pressurized alcohol works very, very well and installation is super easy compared to propane. And much less expensive. Propane works great, though, and the cost of fuel is low. But unless you live aboard the fuel cost is probably not a consideration. I have a Cookmate non-pressurized two burner alcohol stove that is an Origo clone. Very well built and, as far as I can tell, identical to the Origo in every respect. I picked it up new off of e-Bay for $135, if I recall. Just dropped right into the cavity where my old Force 10 propane cooktop used to be, and that was that. You can also find used Origos on eBay easily enough. There is really little to go wrong with them or wear out, so a used one could be just fine for you.

Again, propane is great but if you go that route be careful to install everything properly and up to ABYC specs since a badly installed system can blow you up. That's why I removed my propane system. I weighed the pros and cons of bringing the installation (done before I bought the boat) up to spec vs. switching to alcohol. Other than the faulty installation I was very happy with its performance. But I am just as happy with the Cookmate's performance. Personally, I can tell no real world difference between the two, so I think you'd be satisfied either way.
 
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Emerald

Moderator
your location says Alaska. That water is too cold to have to jump into because the boat is on fire. I'll give another thumbs up to an Origo (or clone).
 

Jenkins

Member II
Is the Coleman stove one that uses the green disposable propane bottles? Don't think that's too safe to have down below either.

Curious to read your thinking on that Alan. It struck me that if you removed the cylinders when the stove is not in use and stored them in an external tank locker it would be very safe. Am i missing something?

Peter
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Curious to read your thinking on that Alan. It struck me that if you removed the cylinders when the stove is not in use and stored them in an external tank locker it would be very safe. Am i missing something?

Peter
Hi, Peter.

What I had in mind is actually using the stove in the cabin--which is why I made reference to the Coleman stove and not to the BBQ that was also mentioned. Perhaps he was using the stove in the cockpit and storing the bottles outside also, in which case there's no problem. But typically people use their stoves down below, hence my comment.

BTW: I have a Magma propane grill that uses those same disposable bottles. Works great and I love it! I also have a bag than hangs from the pushpit in which I store the spare bottles that are not in use. No propane in the cabin. And I have had the mechanisms on those propane bottles leak before!

Cheers,
Alan
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
wow, this is generating all kinds of posts... No we use the stove topside in the cockpit where our bbq is. I'm pretty careful with co in the cabin. I even went as far as installing co detectors.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
wow, this is generating all kinds of posts... No we use the stove topside in the cockpit where our bbq is. I'm pretty careful with co in the cabin. I even went as far as installing co detectors.
Great! Glad to hear that! Unfortunately, I've read many posts on various sailing fora over the years where some people do use those kinds of stoves below. Good on you for taking the appropriate precautions.

By the way: here's the exact stove I have (on which I just now cooked two sunny side up eggs and some really delicious Louisiana hot sausages!): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cookmate-Al...ash=item4d3b3d98e2:g:NyUAAOSwcdBWRLKb&vxp=mtr The $250 price is almost twice what I snagged mine for (though the $10 shipping is definitely a bargain). Of course, a brand new Origo equivalent is $430! http://search.defender.com/?expression=alcohol+stove&x=0&y=0

(Sent from mooring #70, Avalon Harbor, in between bites of sausage!)
 

Phill

Phill
Alcohol stove - misconception

Hey all, Juice here again. I'm a new owner of an 82 Ericson 25+. I'm working through the boat and one thing I've noticed is my alcohol stove doesn't appear to be burning properly. It is the older pump pressurized style. It woofs a lot even after it warms up. I've looked through the Internet and can't find any info on this situation or how to address it. Does anyone know how or if it is possible to tune it? Im pretty sure it is the original stove with the boat.


One of the misconceptions on these stoves is that there isn't any pressure involved in moving the fuel. Actually, that's why you need to pump them up a bit, and then heat the delivery line. Two things happen, 1st is that some additional vapor pressure is built up in the tank to push the fuel to the burner. The 2nd is that the hot line serves to vaporize the fuel for a clean and efficient burn. I have noted on mine that if I get some crud in the line, that things get unhappy. Check to be sure that all is clear and be sure to warm the line. Lighting one of these stoves is a two match process. The first to ignite warming fuel. Let it run till it goes out. Then when you re-light, it should be vapor and not liquid that comes out.

Does that help?
 

Joliba

1988 E38-200 Contributing Member
Phill described the process well. These pressure alcohol stoves are now mostly old and prone to problems. I have had variations of these stoves and ovens with either integral or separate alcohol tanks in a few previous boats. 9 out of 10 times they work beautifully....But, that's the problem. Flare ups, alcohol spills, leaks, managing pressure to maintain an even flame, clogged burners, and invisible flames in sunlight are all significant hazards on a moving (or stationary) boat. Anyone who has used these frequently has seen many of these issues first hand. We used to have a routine of opening the curtains widely away from the stove and keeping a full bucket of water in the cabin at the ready. It was used more than once.
Non-pressurized alcohol is one option. But, propane and CNG are nicer for cooking. The simplest fuel to use is CNG because it is lighter than air and does not require all of the precautions needed for propane. However, the fuel is harder to find in most areas, and therefore not practical for cruising to many destinations. Our E38-200 came with CNG. There is no isolated and vented tank locker, remote shut off system, warning system, or any of the other equipment necessary for a safe propane system. I've seen people cook on boats with butane, kerosene, and charcoal. So, there are are many ways to do it. Just do your research and pick a safe, efficient and economical system that's practical for your boat. Good luck.
Mike Jacker
 

frick

Member III
Flame Thrower

The first thing I did was get read of the flame thrower stove and put in a KISS butane stove. It has it own self contained locker that is vented outside. It uses cans of butane that the little portable restaurant stoves use say at am egg and omelet buffet. I even keep a one of the cheap little stove on the boat just in case.

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/KE=B23006.htm

Of course they no longer make this stove, but mine has been a work horse.

http://www.centralrestaurant.com/Po...5ceSO9AWcsgd82l6gc9osOdN8Vc4Mv_7-waAkaS8P8HAQ

Here is the portable stove I taked about.

Rick+
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
Things that will come out in therapy some day

Get rid of it - is the best way. All I know who have one have almost set themselves and boat on fire.

My very first transpac race, first night out, someone who didn't know what they were doing lit the alcohol stove on fire. In a moment of inspired brilliance, he lifted it off the gimbals, handed it (fully aflame) to someone in the cockpit and said "here, put this out!".

In the postmortem discussion of the event, it became apparent the receiving crew thought they heard "here, throw this out!". Which they had done. Off the back of the boat.

11 days of reconstituted-but-cold freeze-dried foods. Yum. But at least we still had a headliner.
 

Grizz

Grizz
Additional therapy may be needed!

The previous post opened dormant memories of a Chicago Mac (78 hours elapsed! Ugh.) on a vintage Newport 30 tub, nautically designed by a descendant of the Marquis De Sade (slow, uncomfortable inside & out, with 'zero' flat surfaces to perch). What was I thinking?

It too was equipped with an OEM pressure alcohol oven/stove, which proved useless within 60-minutes of our start. It was probably useless well before the start, but wasn't tested by the naïve crew, thinking the Captain knew a crew performs best when it eats well.

We had pre-prepped and pre-paid meals for 3+ days, theoretically requiring only heat. Using our collective creativity, some of these meals were eventually heated to +85° F by individually wrapping each in a black plastic trash bag and strategically positioning them on the cabintop, achieving 'almost edible' status, daylight hours only. Ambient temps + induced thermal heat-gain is a wonderful thing...in a pinch.

Fortunately there was instant coffee, served at 'lake temperature', +/- 55° F, or a crunchy spoonful if in a pinch. Someone dug deep and produced a small bag of nicotine & chocolate "treats", which helped during the Dog Watch, at least they were presented as 'nicotine & chocolate! :nerd:

Late Saturday afternoon, we crossed paths with a tug pulling a barge of garbage, but the captain/owner eventually killed our plans to offload "if we sailed close enough to toss". That distance was being calculated, factoring weight of the unit and the potential swing arc of the unit attached to masthead spin halyard with Samurai Douse ("cut it loose, now!"). Unfortunately, the Captain awoke and put a stop to our dream, continuing our nightmare.

That particular Mac taught a lot, most in the category of "What Not To Do Or Risk Mutiny".

I'll hang up a listen to your reply.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
The previous post opened dormant memories of a Chicago Mac (78 hours elapsed! Ugh.) on a vintage Newport 30 tub, nautically designed by a descendant of the Marquis De Sade (slow, uncomfortable inside & out, with 'zero' flat surfaces to perch). What was I thinking?

It too was equipped with an OEM pressure alcohol oven/stove, which proved useless within 60-minutes of our start. It was probably useless well before the start, but wasn't tested by the naïve crew, thinking the Captain knew a crew performs best when it eats well.

We had pre-prepped and pre-paid meals for 3+ days, theoretically requiring only heat. Using our collective creativity, some of these meals were eventually heated to +85° F by individually wrapping each in a black plastic trash bag and strategically positioning them on the cabintop, achieving 'almost edible' status, daylight hours only. Ambient temps + induced thermal heat-gain is a wonderful thing...in a pinch.

Fortunately there was instant coffee, served at 'lake temperature', +/- 55° F, or a crunchy spoonful if in a pinch. Someone dug deep and produced a small bag of nicotine & chocolate "treats", which helped during the Dog Watch, at least they were presented as 'nicotine & chocolate! :nerd:

Late Saturday afternoon, we crossed paths with a tug pulling a barge of garbage, but the captain/owner eventually killed our plans to offload "if we sailed close enough to toss". That distance was being calculated, factoring weight of the unit and the potential swing arc of the unit attached to masthead spin halyard with Samurai Douse ("cut it loose, now!"). Unfortunately, the Captain awoke and put a stop to our dream, continuing our nightmare.

That particular Mac taught a lot, most in the category of "What Not To Do Or Risk Mutiny".

I'll hang up a listen to your reply.
Great stuff! :egrin:
 

907Juice

Continuously learning
Ok! So I've removed the stove and gave it a good overhaul and it still runs like garbage. Sooooooo, I got your recommendations for non presurized stoves and gonna start looking for one. Propane is going to be more of a hassle than it is worth. Most likely gonna be spring before I take the boat out again so lemme know if you get any hot leads!

Thanks again,
Juice
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Ok! So I've removed the stove and gave it a good overhaul and it still runs like garbage. Sooooooo, I got your recommendations for non presurized stoves and gonna start looking for one. Propane is going to be more of a hassle than it is worth. Most likely gonna be spring before I take the boat out again so lemme know if you get any hot leads!

Thanks again,
Juice
Are you looking for one burner or two?
 
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