Ericson 32 leaking stuffing box?

photobug · Aug 25, 2015

I was trying to clean up the engine today and could hear dripping from way back in the compartment. Leaning over the Atomic 4 engine I saw the shaft from the motor going into a rubber gasket with clamps and it looks like it was dripping from there. I don't have time to get there until possibly Friday but want to find out as much as I can about what to look for and expect. Is that rubber gasket looks almost like a C.V. joint boot.

To work on this or repair it does the boat need to be on the hard? Where can I find more info on repairing this?

Thanks
Jordan

Slick470 · Aug 25, 2015

I'll let one of the atomic 4 people weigh in on specifics to that setup, but most likely you have a traditional stuffing box that most likely needs adjusted or repacked. That said, it is supposed to leak a little bit as the leaking is what keeps the packing lubricated and cool when you are underway. If I remember correctly it should leak about a drip a minute or so at rest and more while you are motoring. As long as you have access it should be relatively easy to adjust.

Take a look at this little how to article that does a better job at showing the parts and pieces and the process than I ever could. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

If you can work under pressure well, you can do a replacement while the boat is in the water. It's just a bit unnerving as water will be shooting out of the shaft log while you are digging out the old stuffing and putting in the new.

Loren Beach · Aug 25, 2015

photobug said:
I was trying to clean up the engine today and could hear dripping from way back in the compartment. Leaning over the Atomic 4 engine I saw the shaft from the motor going into a rubber gasket with clamps and it looks like it was dripping from there. I don't have time to get there until possibly Friday but want to find out as much as I can about what to look for and expect. Is that rubber gasket looks almost like a C.V. joint boot.

To work on this or repair it does the boat need to be on the hard? Where can I find more info on repairing this?
Thanks
Jordan

Can you post up a picture? I have found that putting a trouble light into a semi-inacessable compartment and then inserting my camera with one hand and taking a series of pix on the camera's 'auto' setting usually produces a good image or two.

If the rubber "sleave" looks like a ribbed CV joint, it might be the bellows for an owner-installed PYI Packless Sealing System. But those do not drip, in my experience.

So, some more info will help.

Loren

photobug · Aug 25, 2015

Thanks guys,
I was up most of the night after posting this reading every stuffing box article I could find. I seriously doubt that it is an upgraded anything on this boat. This only thing this boat has that probably did not come from the factory is cockpit cushions, there is not even a boom vang on it. I can take some photos but it may be a day or so till I can get to the boat. At that time I believe I could get a fairly good photo from the lazarette which goes way down deep. I was busy looking at the engine while down there but could look at take photos, the only problem i want to be fixing it at that time not just take some photos. Hopefully fix it when there next. I may just hire someone to make sure it is done right and quickly.

Assuming the parts are original. What size wrenches, tools, packing material should I have on hand for Thursday when I can go fix this?

Jordan

Shelman · Aug 25, 2015

If it looks somewhat like this then you have the pss shaft seal.

It is not intended to leak but it can if you get anything stuck between the mating surfaces or have a loose hose clamp. usually a quick little spin of the shaft with the engine will clear anything out. I have even had it spray an unsettling amount of seawater from a larger particle left from messing around during haul out when I was replacing the old and undesirable perforated hose clamps.

Christian Williams · Aug 25, 2015

It sure does sound like that.

The bellows should be intact. If not, replace immediately, which means shaft has to be pulled. If the bellows breaks, you sink.

But as Shelman says, it is probably just a bit of junk between the rotating surfaces.

Push them apart and wipe. Water will spurt out, normal. "Burping" the seal cleans it and assures that lubricating water is present.

photobug · Aug 25, 2015

Shelman said:
If it looks somewhat like this then you have the pss shaft seal.

It is not intended to leak but it can if you get anything stuck between the mating surfaces or have a loose hose clamp. usually a quick little spin of the shaft with the engine will clear anything out. I have even had it spray an unsettling amount of seawater from a larger particle left from messing around during haul out when I was replacing the old and undesirable perforated hose clamps.

So that unit pictured is on upgraded shaft seal from the original? Because that is kind of what it looked like from what I saw but I was just peering over the engine and could not get a good view. But it looks like what i saw. I was doing some work on the boat and someone was going to take it out after me.

So the assumption is the guy running it might have cleared the item causing the leak?

If this is what we have is all my reading about traditional stuffing boxes not apply?

Christian Williams · Aug 25, 2015

The dripless is different, yes. Several versions and brands. I have PSS, without the water tube input shown above (lube water only comes from shaft).

They work well. Downside is that the integrity of the seal is the accordion rubber, which presses the rotors together. If it splits, water enters the boat and there is no obvious way to stop it. I carry latex sheets and hose clamps, in order to surround the break and make a new rubber seal. However, engine cannot be put into gear with such a jury rig.

The rubber accordion is to be replaced periodically. With the PSS, that means pulling the shaft off the transmission. Nobody wants to mess with that, so the accordions don't get replaced as often as they should.

Our biggest boat yard here, which services TransPac yachts, recommends a traditional stuffing box. With today's materials they leak hardly, or not at all.

mkollerjr · Aug 25, 2015

A couple of additional items with the PYI shaft seal:

1. The metal retaining collar set screws have a history of loosening and the collar working off, causing water intrusion. The manufacturer recommends adding an additional hose clamp around the shaft up against the collar, to prevent it from backing off in the case that a set screw loosens. Our surveyor noted this, and I have since installed a hose clamp.
2. After splashing the boat following a haul-out, you need to reach back and manually push the bellows back until it fills back up with water. This water exerts pressure on the bellows which helps form the seal. When you haul out, the bellows drain, and may not fill back up again unless you manually push the bellows back. This was another item our surveyor noted.

Mark

Shelman · Aug 25, 2015

mkollerjr said:
A couple of additional items with the PYI shaft seal:

1. The metal retaining collar set screws have a history of loosening and the collar working off, causing water intrusion. The manufacturer recommends adding an additional hose clamp around the shaft up against the collar, to prevent it from backing off in the case that a set screw loosens. Our surveyor noted this, and I have since installed a hose clamp.
2. After splashing the boat following a haul-out, you need to reach back and manually push the bellows back until it fills back up with water. This water exerts pressure on the bellows which helps form the seal. When you haul out, the bellows drain, and may not fill back up again unless you manually push the bellows back. This was another item our surveyor noted.

Mark

The newer model has vent line which eliminates the need to burp by letting the air bubble out the tube. One more potential leak though.

Glyn Judson · Aug 25, 2015

To stuff or not to stuff, that is the question.

Guys, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have to say that for my money, I'm as happy as a pig in mud with my conventional stuffing box filled with the latest space age flax, etc. As I've stated before, mine doesn't drip even one drop running or at rest and I honestly can't remember the last time I had to adjust it, even if and certainly measured in years like between five to ten or more. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

photobug · Aug 26, 2015

Shelman said:
If it looks somewhat like this then you have the pss shaft seal.

I sent a picture of this to my boat neighbor who stuck his head down below to double what is going on.

Here is how he described what he saw.

"It is very similar. However the rubber hose appeared more even in its diameter all the way. The metal ring laying at the side seems bigger than yours, but maybe it was just hidden under the rubber hose. I did not see what looks like some kind of connector on the pic on yours (but the pic is not so clear). Would you like me to take a pic and send you? I could do tmrw. "

So it is probably a dripless but not from this manufacturer. What other options might be on the boat, so I can research what might be on my boat for my next day of repairs?

fool · Aug 26, 2015

dripless shaft seal

An important note: one manufacturer recommends replacing the PSS bellows every six years. If you don't have documentation on when the bellows was last replaced you might want to consider replacing it for peace of mind; or see "C" in the trouble shooting section of the link below for a possible solution as suggested by Shelman:

http://www.shaftseal.com/de/about/installation_instructions

The rules for PSS and Stuffing Boxes are different. You'll have a different set of reading to do, and lots of varying opinions on which system is best and for what reason. Of course everyone who has an opinion is validated by publishing it on the internet, so they must all be true.

Please let us know the results of your investigations,

Max

September Sun
ERY35240D686

photobug · Aug 27, 2015

My boat neighbor took some photos for me. It looks relatively the same but different from the PSS seeal.

Can anyone tell me what kind of shaft seal I have?

Afrakes · Aug 27, 2015

Standard Stuffing Box

It is a standard stuffing box with a long rubber tube connecting it to the shaft log.

photobug · Aug 27, 2015

Afrakes said:
It is a standard stuffing box with a long rubber tube connecting it to the shaft log.

That's a relief. Sounds like if it was a dripless, it would be time to change out the bellows and that would mean hauling the boat and while the boat is due the funds are not there right now. I'll go work on it next week. Assuming it is stock for a 72 E-32-2: What diameter stuffing should I have on hand to repack this?

TakeFive · Aug 27, 2015

Read repacking a stuffing box by Maine Sail
Have on hand:
PB Blaster
A heat gun
good lighting
small hand mirror
Brass wire brush to clean up threads once it's all apart
Small ice pick
Palmetto flexible packing extractor
Two packing nut wrenches (No pipe wrenches, adj wrenches, or vice grips)
3/16 gtu gore packing
anti-anxiety medication

If it's been apart before, it may be easy, but yours looks corroded, so be prepared.
If your'e doing it while boat is in water make sure bilge pumps are working before starting.
It's a simple job if the locking nut moves.

GrandpaSteve · Aug 27, 2015

Packing Nut Wrenches?

Where would one obtain packing nut wrenches? I think they would have been helpful initially.

I serviced my stuffing box this year that was frozen closed, the thing that seemed to work was generous application of PB Blaster over a couple of weeks. Now it is very easy to loosen the lock nut and adjust the packing nut with channel locks.

Slick470 · Aug 27, 2015

there is a flat adjustable wrench that is used for plumbing that your local big box store probably sells that some people swear by. http://www.lowes.com/pd_331888-943-03840.UPP6___?productId=3220013&pl=1&Ntt=adjustable+wrenches

I typically just use two channel locks. The channel lock brand ones seem to be slightly thinner than some of the off brand ones and that helps when adjusting the lock nut.

Pat O'Connell · Aug 27, 2015

Stuff Box Wrences

Andys advice is right on. If you check out "compass marine" "Maine Sail." He discusses and illustrates the issue too.
Pat O'Connell
Chips 1981 E28+

Join us on April 26th, 7pm EST

for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

Ericson 32 leaking stuffing box?

Member II

Member III

O34 - Portland, OR

Member II

Member III

Attachments

E381 - Los Angeles

Member II

E381 - Los Angeles

Member III

Member III

Moderator

Member II

Member III

Member II

Attachments

Sustaining Member

Member II

Member II

Sustaining Member

Member III

Member III