E30+ traverler cam cleats

The great joy of doing more sailing this year is learning more things that don't quite work on the boat. On the plus side, we've gotten better at shaping the mainsail with the traveler! The down side, locking the traveler sheet is a source of mystery and frustration. There just doesn't seem to be a good combo of angle and tension that will get the line to slip into the cleat.

If I had to guess, it's some combo of old, dirty lines, old dirty cleat, and user error. Anyone else run into this? It doesn't look very nautical to guests on the boat to have myself and the captain swearing while trying to put tension on the line and kick it into place with our heels.

May be a simple fix.

I was struggling with mine too until a light bulb went off... Line was oversize! About $20 / 15 min later it works like a charm. Pics?

This is a shockingly common problem

I don't know why for sure, but I think it might be the rope on sale problem. The rope on sale problem is that if you buy a spool of line it seems, or is, cheaper. Maybe you don't mind that it is all the same color, ( which makes sailing harder, much easier with color coded lines), or that the perceived savings is too much to pass up. Or maybe someone gave you some left over line that would be long enough for a traveler line, fender line, or whatever.

The issue is that all of the lines on your boat should not be the same size. They have different functions and different loads, so why would you make all of them the same? I can't count the number of times that someone had a boat that they could not release the main sheet on because the line was too big to fit in the cam cleat on their sheet block. Or the times that they complained about chafe at the masthead with a 9/16 halyards on a 27 foot boat.

My favorite though is a 37 foot boat rigged entirely with 3/4 inch line.... Nothing worked, but the owner bragged that he had gotten all of it for free... I had to get involved to get him down from the top of the mast when the line he was aloft on jammed in a halyard exit on the mast. What a mess.

Run the load calculations for each use of your line, and pick the right sized line, which these days can get smaller and smaller due to higher tech line with higher load ratings and lower stretch characteristics.

In looking at the line selection also take note of the line diameter required by your rope clutches or your winches, cleats (cam or otherwise). Picking the right line for the use is important. It makes the boat sail easier, and allows people to experience less frustration. Also remember not to just replace what was there. Most of our boats are old enough to have had 2 or 5 previous owners that may have found a great deal on a spool of left over line. (There was probably a reason that it was being blown out of stock by the way, it probably was not the correct size for most usages).

Sail safer, and have more fun, size the rope to the use.

Guy

Engineer P.O.

Amen Guy. My Prior owner was an engineer. A great guy who took great care of the boat. And... Bigger/stronger is not always better! I had to laugh though, because I just redid a bunch of my running rigging with "Free" line that was smaller. We will see how long it takes before I head to the chandler.

And I would add just one thing having learned the hard way. I bought some really strong small lines for topping lift and outhaul, and they are terrible on the hands, so handle the stuff and find the right diameter with the right strength and the right feel. And yes, I got sucked into the special sale on the stuff I can't stand, and now I know why it was on sale

I reduced the size of the line on my OE traveler, too. Among other things, line can swell up with age and fuzziness from cams.

I also fixed the springs in the cleats. A stamped tab had broken off, allowing the springs to dislocate. I was able to use a tiny ss bolt and nut to retain the original springs.

Old traveler lines:



Somewhat smaller line, much better. (I noticed that the starboard side is rigged wrong in this old pic.)

Well, if you don't know better, when ordering blocks from a catalog, they tend to list unrealistic line size ranges. Or some of them just list a "maximum" line size that does not actually fit. Unless maybe it was old and stretched out. Lots of return authorizations and re-ordering ensues. Some people probably can't bring themselves to sit around for a month, waiting for UPS.

Also, I wasted a Saturday making neat eye-splices in my new mainsheet and traveller lines. Only to discover that the tails of the splices limit the traveler movement. Back to crude-looking knots...

toddster said:

Also, I wasted a Saturday making neat eye-splices in my new mainsheet and traveller lines. Only to discover that the tails of the splices limit the traveler movement. Back to crude-looking knots...

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FWIW, when I replaced my traveler and lines I seized the eyes rather than splicing to save space.




I later changed the coach top cam cleats for Spinlock PXR cam cleats. Much easier for the admiral to release the line under load.



https://www.spinlock.co.uk/en-us/categories/cleats-1/product_groups/pxr-cam-cleat

As requested, here's a photo of one of the offending cleats. Gotta say, the story of folks who you'd think would know better routinely using the wrong size line was jaw dropping.

from the pictures, it seems the outboard cam is binding. If you haven't already, try some Mc lube dry spray lubricant in all the jaws. the suggestions on rope size are important too. Good luck!

Looks like we have the same fittings. Perhaps you have a "lazy' cam.

Undo the cam screw and the spring is exposed. The spring rides against a stamped tab, a turned-up piece of stainless. If the tab is gone, or bent, the spring fails to hold tension.

I was able to drill for a tiny ss bolt and nut in that position. The head of the bolt now acts as the tab.

I was at the boat when I saw your message, so I made an iPhone video of my unit functioning. It works very well.

https://vimeo.com/137309763

For those who have ever wondered what the inside of the cam cleats look like, wonder no more. Looks like this could use a little cleaning, but the springs seemed generally ok, and the little metal tab is intact. Tried a scrap of 5/16th line that worked a liiiitle better than what's on the boat. Thinking 3/16 work even better.

Sailing downwind last weekend I had a problem with the traveler line popping out of the cam cleats while jibing when the wind got up around 15kts. Cabin top traveler with lines run through dodger. New 3/8” SLX3 traveler line, OE (as far as I can tell) cam cleats with eye straps but not fairleads. Internal springs seem fine. Angle of lead into the cleat seems a little high but that looks to be the case in most of the pics I’ve seen on this site so far. Thinking of adding fairleads and if that doesn’t help maybe adding angle base under the cleat? Maybe dropping down to 5/16” line? OE specs said 3/8” so that’s what I went with when replacing. Anyone else experience this or have thoughts on a remedy? Here’s a pic from before the line replacement.

I went to 5/16ths (reef lines also) and much prefer it.

Traveler line "popping off" after a tack is common on my boat if crew hauls tight the traveler control line and then tries to seat it in the cam.

Better to start hauling down (seating) in the cam just before the line gets tight, a technique that isn't very intuitive. But a violently flying traveler car is a good teacher .

......
5/16s vs 3/8ths

One other solution I used on our prior boat for cam cleats with the line lead "straight in" was to remount the cam cleat with a slight wedge shape under the base. Back in ye olden times I found an aluminum piece from some little vendor shaped to fit under a standard Harken cam...(now long gone likely). Nowadays it would be easier to take a little 3/16" slice of G10, and hold it against a sanding disk. Even 2 or 3 degrees of angle will make a huge difference in how readily the line will guide itself into the jaws.

Christian Williams said:

I went to 5/16ths (reef lines also) and much prefer it.

Traveler line "popping off" after a tack is common on my boat if crew hauls tight the traveler control line and then tries to seat it in the cam.

Better to start hauling down (seating) in the cam just before the line gets tight, a technique that isn't very intuitive. But a violently flying traveler car is a good teacher .

View attachment 43159......View attachment 43160
5/16s vs 3/8ths

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Thanks Christian I’ll try to work on that technique!

Guy's excellent advice in reply #3 should be posted up *everywhere* !


Having felt the magnetic attraction of the "rope on sale" syndrome myself I have had to wrestle with the dreaded "FOMO".... "fear of missing out" of a... "bargain".
(sigh)

Loren Beach said:

One other solution I used on our prior boat for cam cleats with the line lead "straight in" was to remount the cam cleat with a slight wedge shape under the base. Back in ye olden times I found an aluminum piece from some little vendor shaped to fit under a standard Harken cam...(now long gone likely). Nowadays it would be easier to take a little 3/16" slice of G10, and hold it against a sanding disk. Even 2 or 3 degrees of angle will make a huge difference in how readily the line will guide itself into the jaws.

Click to expand...

Thanks Loren, I saw Harken has a 15* angled base but didn’t know if it might be overkill. The G10 idea sounds like a good middle ground.