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Unannounced Insurance Coverage Reduction

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
So I just received our annual BoatUS renewal letter and sat down to cut them a check.
I glanced over the policy and noticed that our "agreed on" value was lowered (!) 20% from what I remembered it to be. No explanation or reason.

A look through my insurance file revealed that this had been done to us only last year.
And I had paid it, just in the nick of time, having been cruising in Canada some of the summer.
I never noticed the change. And there was no explanation of it on that policy, either.
(All the other prior years were for the amount they agreed to when they wrote the insurance.)

So, I called and was told that someone higher up would have to contact me tomorrow by phone to discuss "raising" the value of the boat. I pointed out that, absent any negotiation, there could not be a reduction in the AGREED ON value in the first place.
Lady on the phone got a bit sarcastic with me and explained that since I had paid it last season I was stuck.

And...... that the BUC book value on our model boat is about half their assigned value anyway. I pointed out the BUC numbers are meaningless for low production and low market information boats. She was not interested. I also pointed out that you could buy about any brand or model of boat for a fraction of it's turn-key price, and this does not change the hourly cost of yard time to repair a boat. She got irritated. No bad words were exchanged, but I was not getting any sort of measured or nuanced reply that a long time customer would seem to warrant.

So, it will be interesting to see what they say tomorrow.

To me, this policy change was fraudulent from the git-go.

**I suppose that I could just mail them a letter proclaiming that my coverage is now changed to $100K at the same premium, and if they do not contest my letter within ten days, it will stand as "agreed on", by their own definition of the phrase.
:mad:

If you have a policy with this company, you might want to look over you recent renewals and declarations pages.

Regards,
Loren
 
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Shelman

Member III
Blogs Author
I have had similar conversations with boat us about the value of my boat after I spent $15,000.00 in refit. I was told I could add a mast made of pure gold and they would not insure my boat for more than they had it listed for in their computer.
I am still looking for an insurance company that is willing to take more money in premiums to actually cover the value of my boat.
 

Shelman

Member III
Blogs Author
And I am spending another $2,300 this month on new sails. also They only offer $1,000 in coverage for items on board.... my macbook pro alone cost over $2,300
 

Macgyro

Amazingly Still Afloat
Blogs Author
Marine Insurance Brokers

You guys have to have a marine insurance broker nearby. I found one local in MD that got me higher coverage at a lower premium than Boat U.S. If you're not sure where, a marine surveyor or marina may know.

Although, I now have "tournament coverage" so if I'm unable to compete in a fishing tournament (in my Ericson) that I've already paid for, they'll refund the entry fee.

Good Luck!
-Dean
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have had similar conversations with boat us about the value of my boat after I spent $15,000.00 in refit. I was told I could add a mast made of pure gold and they would not insure my boat for more than they had it listed for in their computer.
I am still looking for an insurance company that is willing to take more money in premiums to actually cover the value of my boat.

Sounds like something changed at BoatUS in very recent times.

Two issues present themselves: 1) fraudulently claiming that I have "agreed" to something when I did not and was never even offered a negotiation.
And, 2) their refusal to accept a true market value of a boat, any boat.

After all, a boat over 20 or 30 years old will have an actual value that will vary by 100% compared to a neglected "sister ship" due to upgrades and major maintenance done.

Loren
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
I have Travelers Insurance through a yacht insurance agency located in Port Townsend (Homer Smith Insurance). I’ve been very satisfied so far and they are responsive and will shop around for the best quote. I believe Travelers even sponsors sailing events. When setting up the policy, I just told them how much I wanted it insured for (no blue-book value involved). So, I just have it insured for the price I paid for the boat. Includes the dinghy, $5k personal property, $1500 commercial towing, $300k fuel spill, $10k medical, and $300k uninsured boater. Works out to be about $50 per month. Hope it’s ok only insuring the boat for what I paid for it, and not “replacement cost” for a comparable new boat, which would be over twice that. When I tried to get a quote from Boat US last year, they wouldn’t give me one because I had no prior boat ownership experience.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have Travelers Insurance through a yacht insurance agency located in Port Townsend (Homer Smith Insurance). I’ve been very satisfied so far and they are responsive and will shop around for the best quote. I believe Travelers even sponsors sailing events. When setting up the policy, I just told them how much I wanted it insured for (no blue-book value involved). So, I just have it insured for the price I paid for the boat. Includes the dinghy, $5k personal property, $1500 commercial towing, $300k fuel spill, $10k medical, and $300k uninsured boater. Works out to be about $50 per month. Hope it’s ok only insuring the boat for what I paid for it, and not “replacement cost” for a comparable new boat, which would be over twice that. When I tried to get a quote from Boat US last year, they wouldn’t give me one because I had no prior boat ownership experience.

That's a strong recommendation, but I went to their site and they appear to offer ins. only for Washington boaters.

On the advice of another sailing friend (and Ericson owner!) I just requested a quote from Boat Insurance Agency in Seattle. Might as well have some options in hand......

Regards,
Loren
 
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Akavishon

Member III
After a disagreement with BoatUS (who changed their underwriter relatively recently, I believe) I switched to MetLife, last year. Better coverage for less money, why not?
 

Mort Fligelman

Member III
Boat US Insurance ....Bah Humbug

Loren: When I went to insure my boat in Florida in 2006 most insurance companies refused to insure any boat over ten years old and over 30 feet (Not abso sure about he size).

Went to Boat US and they agreed to insure the boat for a value 25% less than the surveyed value, along with liability limits that I needed because of my Umbrella. The premium was out of sight....almost 5 grand.....Guess where I told them to go.....

Found that Progressive would write the liability alone at $350 per year......again...really crazy.... but I was stuck.....

This is what I paid until I moved the boat back to Illinois in 2010.

I found a broker here that Progressive sent me to when I had to change the address to another State....

That broker got me insured with ACE Insurance at a figure that was little more than what I was paying Progressive including hull insurance and the whole ball of wax, including racing coverage......I of course understand that there is no threat of hurricanes here....but there are Tornados and extreme high winds.....

I just looked up ACE on Google....they just aquired Chubb, and are really one heck of a company.....You might want to get in touch with them to find a local broker...

As you always say Loren...."this advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it".....

Good Luck
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Boat Insurance

For you people who have been in the Military, USAA (Best Ins Co in the world) offers yacht coverage through Markel. Just renewed with $51,000 coverage, $300,000 Liability and all the other bells and whistles with zero problems or hassle.

Bob
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Some Closure

I have been on the phone with Boat Insurance Agency in Seattle. Nice folks, and they can get insurance for us at approx the BoatUS rate for our desired value (65K). They will be glad to help me when/if I decide to change. They might even be able to save me a few bucks, but I would also have to provide a new survey as an incoming new customer. Given the expense of a survey, I would have to consider that cost if changing companies.

And, I did a call back from a rep @ BoatUS. I was told that they would immediately restore our "agreed on" value and keep the present premium as stated in the current billing. I was promised and did just receive email confirmation of this.
While not a full-on apology, it was quite a different tone than I heard in yesterday's call.
And, "agreed on" value does mean what I believe it means.

The person also pointed out that we were due for a survey, at their expense, as is their policy. I cannot complain too much about that, as our last full survey was in 2002, and BoatUS took us on as insureds in 2005 with no survey required at all.

It appears that they may have a policy of quietly reducing coverage and then restoring it when the customer complains, viewed from a cynical viewpoint (!).
:rolleyes:

Anyhow, for now we shall stay the course.

BTW, I also called USAA, having been reminded by Bob that they do insure boats. Our vehicles are already insured with them anyhow. Their affiliate for boat insurance is Progressive, and an agent there told me that our model boat is not... in their database.
He could write it at 40K valuation for about $774./year.
That's a lot more than we pay now, so they are not in the running at this point.

Since I was criticizing BoatUS, it seems only fair to provide some closure and a bit more information to this thread.

Regards,
Loren
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Stay away from Progressive

Progressive is horrid, I would rather go uninsured then ever deal with them again.

In the end it cost me more to deal with them than I would have made in my hourly rate with the hours I spent on the phone with EVIL ZACK.

They will take your money, but they never ever pay out, horrible people, horrible process, horrible customer service.

Guy
:)
 

Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
The boat insurance company in Seattle is the best in the world

There are people that know what they are doing and are truly wonderful to deal with.

I recommend them to everyone!

Guy
:)
 

Pat O'Connell

Member III
Insurance

Hi Respected Sailors

Thanks for the discovery on this. Chips is $389 with Progressive/USAA. $32K of value, loads of liability and towing. Sounds cheap. I bet they might be a challenge to claim with. I think any boat claims might be a hassle. Our boat is 34 years old and value would be very subjective. I just know I would hate to lose Chips. We can't insure the memories, eh? The customer service people have been very polite but I have not ever claimed. Neighbor in the moorings just race busted his boom and placed his first claim in his lifetime. I'll have to ask him how that goes.

Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
Chips 1981 28+
 

Ericsean

Member III
Progressive Insurance

I have had Progressive since I bought Rettsie in 2007.
After Super Storm Sandy, they did pay a claim for damage rather promptly in my opinion.

Although when I met the adjuster at the yard with the boat on the "Hard", I did have to bite my tongue when he asked if the mast was 100' tall!

FYI, paying about 800 for 40K coverage. Guess I should shop around too, although we are in the hurricane belt on Long Island.
 
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