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Bulkhead replacement and thru-hulls/seacocks

jrclark32

Member I
I've been gradually working on my getting my '74 E25 on the water, and am tackling the major project of replacing the bulkheads which are very rotten due to water intrusion around the chainplates. I was relieved to find that not only are the bulkheads not glassed in, but they are JUST small enough to fit through the companionway in one piece.

There is a place here in Austin that stocks marine grade marine mahogany plywood in 1/2" and 3/4". Will that be okay as a replacement?

The main obstacle I'm seeing that will impede getting non-rotten panels back in place is the capped off seacock for the now-removed head. I'm not sure how they got the larger valve in place, because I can't turn it a full revolution without coming in contact with a fiberglass wall. Also, these look like gate valves, which I assume shouldn't be used here. Do these come apart somehow? Will I have to cut it off?

If anyone can offer advice on how to get these out of the way, and what they should be replaced with, I'd really appreciate it.
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Thanks!
 

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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Removing cramped seacock.

Dear friend, Most if not all through hull fittings have visible ears in the hole. When installing them in the past, I fashioned a tapered tool that fit inside the hole but was wide enough toward the bottom of the taper to pick up those ears. It was long enough to stick out so I could get a 10" Crescent wrench on it and by wedging a wrench inside on the nut, I was able to install the fitting quite easily by turning outside. The one I made was from a scrap of 1/4" aluminum plate and was up to the task because I was installing, not removing the fitting. You might want to make a similar tool from steel plate on the assumption that you're on the hard. then you might want to consider getting a buddy with a pipe wrench to hold that through hull nut on the inside of the boat while you work from the outside with the tool you have fashioned. An alternative would be to use a Dremel tool or similar to cut the nut off, then use your steel tool to remove the fitting while a buddy keeps the gate valve from rotating. I'm sure the reverse is how it was installed in the first place. Go for it, you can do it, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

jrclark32

Member I
Glyn,

Thanks for the advice. I see the tabs you're talking about.. I'm not sure what I can put together as a removal tool, but that is a good idea. She is sitting on the trailer now, and I can access the fitting from both sides.

Once I get this apart and out of there, what should I replace it with? Since the head is now gone, is a thru-hull with a cap on it the answer?

Thanks,
John
 

frick

Member III
Use screwdriver on the tabs

I was able to use a large screwdriver with a medium sized vise grip on the little wings on the through the hull fittings on my E29. I replaced all my gate valves with bronze ball valves.
Rick
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Get it all out of there.

John, If you don't plan to ever install a head, the best thing you could do is to cut all the hardware out of there and glass in the hole. Short of that, be aware that the threads on the hull fitting are straight and any cap or other valve is going to be a tapered pipe thread and the two don't match more than 1 1/2 to 2 threads and one swift side blow could carry the potential of snapping a fitting clean off, something you don't want to happen after going back into the water. Also understand that if you were to install all new parts including a proper seacock, the threads on the bottom of the seacock are straight to accept the hull fitting while they're tapered on top to accept any barb or pipe, etc you might want to mate to it. Then you can cap or plug those tapered threads off and know that you've done it right and can then sleep soundly. So, you have several options based on whether or not you or a subsequent owner ever plan to have a head in there again. God luck and make the call, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

frick

Member III
Groco flange

Groco makes a flange... Straight threads on the inside, tappered on the outside....
Rick
 

jrclark32

Member I
Stainless vs Bronze?

Thanks for the heads up on the different threads... That would definitely be a dangerous screw-up. At some point, I would like to do some longer trips so I don't want to take re-installing the head off the table. I just want to make sure I have these replaced properly and safely.

Rick, is this what you're talking about?

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=56746

I see that they're available in both Bronze and Stainless... Which is preferable?

-John
 

frick

Member III
That's it

That the flange I wrote off. I got a better price at defender.
Also, don't mix metals. If the through the hull is bronze, use bronze.

Rick
 

Shelman

Member III
Blogs Author
The stainless and the bronze can both develop corrosive failures over time, but each have different failure modes. stainless can develop pitting and rusting when deprived of the oxygen that rejuvenates its protective oxidation coating. Bronze can suffer from de-zinkification (Loss of zink) when subjected to galvanic corrosion (dissimilar metals on the galvanic scale immersed in salt water) or or electrolysis (stray electrical current)
Most bronze sea-cocks are made from 85-5-5 which has a low percentage of zink which lessens its susceptibility to de-zinkification.
Most people chose bronze for applications below the waterline and stainless or bronze for above the waterline.
I also prefer working with bronze because it cuts and files more easily.

Groco also started making a backer plate that can be through bolted or backer plate bolted which is handy.
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jrclark32

Member I
Thanks guys! I have been reading Roscoe's articles, and that is a great resource, as is Mainsail's website.

I think what I'm going to try to do is use the Groco backing plate with their flanged adapter. I'm hoping that my thru-hulls are reusable, but I need to clean them up to make a decision.

There is an obstruction near the wastewater exit. Would it be possible to trim the Groco plate to fit?

Also, on the bulkhead replacement side of things... There were rubber "gaskets" around the top and sides of both port and starboard bulkheads. Neither really survived removal. Any suggestions on what to replace those with?

Thanks!
-John
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jrclark32

Member I
Rubber edging

Here is a picture of the rubber gasket I was referring to. It seems to function to snug the bulkheads into the channel that the bolts go through.
 

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jrclark32

Member I
Finish?

I got some 1/2" marine grade mahogany plywood from a local lumberyard, and a carpenter buddy of mine is helping me cut and fit the replacement pieces. (I'm still working on a solution for the rubber "gaskets")

The next step will be to finish them and bolt everything back into place. I do plan to eventually refinish all of the interior woodwork, but I'd still prefer that these don't stand out TOO obviously from the rest of it. What stain/varnish is appropriate for this application? Any tips on helping to getting the new pieces to match the color of the original wood?

Part of me is tempted to just refinish all of it now, and be done with it. But, I'm starting to feel like there's no stopping point.
 

frick

Member III
The nice Ericson Red

Just about every Ericson I have been on has had a redish hued Mahogany.
Nice color.
Rick
 

jrclark32

Member I
Rick,

Agreed... I really like the original color. I'm not sure how to go about getting these new pieces to match, or what refinishing products are going to hold up in a marine environment.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, I have various tones of varnish below, thanks to aging (not me; the boat). The varnish behind the seatback cushions is much darker than above. I'd have guessed it would go the other way.

Here's what I have done:

Get some sample wood--mahogany, teak, whatever, and put on a coat of varnish. Schooner is quite amber. Other varnishes or equivalents maybe be darker or lighter, and some are clear. By the way, if you wipe alcohol across a piece of boat wood it often turns instantly to "varnish" tone. It's an easy way to get an idea how the wood will look.

If that doesn't seem right, there are all those Minwood stains. Minwood "red mahogany" looks absolutely ridiculous and nothing at all like mahogany, but it's fun to try various of them. A precoat of Minwood "Pre-Stain Conditioner" makes a slightly subtle change for the good, in my experience. But then, my experience with stains has been all bad.

Another factor is gloss. Satin varnish, which I use, comes out below decks looking like rubbed oil. Sine color is affected by reflection, the same wood in semi or high gloss Schooner looks different once again.

In the end, there are so many surfaces and metals and cushions and light sources on a boat that I don;t mind if separate wood surfaces don't exactly match.

Maybe that's the best answer.....
 

dt222

Member III
When I replaced one of my bulkheads last year (mahogany marine ply) I used Interlux Interstain #42- Brown Mahogany and covered with Epifanes gloss varnish and it matched pretty well.

Don
 

davisr

Member III
In my experience, to get the reddish-orange look of the original mahogany, you have to use a brown mahogany stain. Sounds like Don had a similar experience. I experimented with Pettit red mahogany stain. It was far too red. The brown mahogany plus the Epiphanes gloss (4 coats) plus Epiphanes rubbed effect varnish (2 coats) worked well. As you see, the bookcases blend right in with the original bulkheads. Note that the trim on the overhead (which at this stage I had simply dry-fitted and not stained and varnished) is pinkish by comparison.

Roscoe
E25# 226
Oystercatcher

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davisr

Member III
If you don't believe me, check out these pictures. The red seemed to me, when I looked at it in the can, that it would certainly spread thin and mellow out atop the mahogany. It didn't. It was almost red paint. The brown, on the other hand, seem way to brown, but it spread thin and mellowed out in just the fashion I was looking for.

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