Bosun's Chair E38

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out a way to run my main halyard back to my large primary winch to make hoisting the chair easier. If I just take it straight back across the cabin top, the downward angle of the line causes an override on the winch. If I take it to the starboard side genoa car, the halyard rubs on the cabin top and handrail, causing too much friction.

I'm just curious how other people are addressing this...

mark

lifting a bosun's chair

Hello Mark,

I recommend a system my rigger has been using to do inspections, replace running lights, and install spreader boots. It is a 4:1 block and tackle system with a ratcheting block. I see similar systems for sale with a snatch block but I'm a little sketchy about using one of these should the hauling line get bumped out of the cam cleat while focusing on the job at hand when aloft.

Tie knots from the main and jib halyards to the top block, do not use the shackles. Use both the main and jib halyards to haul the top block to the top of the mast and tie off both halyards on deck for redundant security. This will take a bunch of line for the 4:1 rig but your local home improvement store probably stocks a line thick enough to be comfortable in gloved hands: think tree pruning. The 4:1 ratio of a block and tackle rig should be an easier lift for everyone involved: think main sheet or boom vang. A helper can always help pull from below and then evacuate when you get to the top. No point in being an on deck target for dropped nuts and bolts.

I personally would not risk damaging my deck by landing on it should the main halyard or shackle give way when aloft (thus the jib halyard redundancy). Aside from not carrying nearly enough bilge sponge to clean up the resulting bone, brain, and blood should the halyards part.

Google bosun mechanical advantage for a more detailed explanation.

Max
September Sun
Ericson 35 Mk. III Hull #240

mkollerjr said:

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out a way to run my main halyard back to my large primary winch to make hoisting the chair easier. If I just take it straight back across the cabin top, the downward angle of the line causes an override on the winch. If I take it to the starboard side genoa car, the halyard rubs on the cabin top and handrail, causing too much friction.

I'm just curious how other people are addressing this...

mark

Click to expand...

You are on the right track... You might want to rig up some snatch blocks with various tie points and strops to get the lead right.
We have a related problem. I find that having a friend crank me up the mast with the housetop Lewmar 30 is a bit of a test of the friendship! :0
This season I plan to see if I can create a fair lead to one of the Lewmar 46ST primaries.
IIRC, the E-38 had Lewmar 52ST primaries, or some equivalent ratio in the earlier Barient winches.

Loren

Mark,

Does the E38 have turning blocks aft of the primary winches for the sheets? The E36RH does, so I lead the downward angled halyard from the aft edge of the cabintop directly into the turning cheek block and then forward and up to the winch at the proper angle the sheet would normally take.

As Loren stated, you could also add blocks to direct the lead properly. Aft and lower than the primary makes the angle work pretty easily. The location of an A-sail or cruising chute sheet block on the aft, outboard corner should work. Or a block on an aft cleat or other strong attachment point should do it too. If you need a pair of custom length strops to float a block in the right location, you can jury rig it but I would have them made and keep them with the bosuns chair along with any other gear you need specifically for going up the mast.

The only issue I have with running the halyard aft and back to the winch is that it is too short to load up onto the self-tailing winch until I have climbed up onto the boom. If I could do it over, I would have made one of my new spin halyards longer so I could hook in on deck with the tail run aft and loaded into the winch jaws.

I second Max's comments on safety. I tie figure 8 climbers knots in the halyards attached to me and don't trust the splice or the shackles. I wear a climbing harness attached to one halyard independent of the hauling halyard tied to the bosuns chair. I have each halyard on an independent ST winch run through my cabintop clutches. When I get to where I want to be, I tie off with a climbing runner to the mast.
Everybody needs to be most careful when you are being lowered because all the load is in the hands of the operator(s), the clutches are open and the lines are out of the winch jaws.


Mark

Unfortunately I don't have any aft turning blocks (no spinnaker or gennaker either). I do have a couple of snatch blocks, and I was going to see if I can use those to raise the lead to the genoa car just enough to clear the cabin top. I'll let you know how it works. This weekend is daylight savings time, so that means actual daylight after work t get stuff done and to go sailing!

Mark

Mark,

We took the main halyard out of the block at the bottom of the mast and ran it straight to a genoa car (on the toe rail). That solved the cabin top and grab rail interference. Whether that will work for you depends on which hole on the mast that the halyard exits from. Then, with another snatch block or perhaps the jib car on the inner track, you can get to the primary with a good lead angle. We have Barient 32 primaries but it's still a chore.

Craig

I have yet to solve this, although the lead on my boat does go to the genoa winches. I need a way to get up alone.

For contemplating, there are a great many bits of gear available to arborists to stimulate the imagination. I watch them in use as each year some crazy people climb the three 55-foot tall Washingtonian fan palms in my yard with chain saws--and swing one to the other at the top to avoid climbing back down and up again.

Or the young fellows who haul themselves up my mast using 3:1....

http://www.westechrigging.com/blocks---pulleys-mechanical-advantage.html

footrope said:

Mark,

We took the main halyard out of the block at the bottom of the mast and ran it straight to a genoa car (on the toe rail). That solved the cabin top and grab rail interference. Whether that will work for you depends on which hole on the mast that the halyard exits from. Then, with another snatch block or perhaps the jib car on the inner track, you can get to the primary with a good lead angle. We have Barient 32 primaries but it's still a chore.

Craig

Click to expand...

Thanks for for the tip. I tried bringing the halyard to the toe rail tonight (photos below). It seems like it may work, though I'm a little concerned with the angle out if the mast.

Mark,
Thanks for the pics. That angle will lead to a little chafe. We've also used the chain plate U-bolt for the aft lower shroud for that first snatch block. That should make the exit better but there will still be a rub point even with the shallower angle. The angle to the inner jib sheet track and then to the primary is very good from there too. Since you don't go up the mast very often the chafe isn't so much of a problem from either angle.

Craig

Could you not run the halyard past the cabin-top winch to once around the stbd primary then over to the port primary ?

This would mean (I think) the rope would start low on the winch drum and self-tail properly. I have not tried this myself but will do next week.

The bosun chair occupant would have to be standing on the boom, as previously suggested, to allow this to get going.

The E34 has few places to anchor floating blocks.

Rob

plan B



I just tried it and going from cabin-top to port primary works well, there should be no wraps over-riding.

Only problem is, the main halyard snap-shackle is 4ft below the bottom spreaders by the time it is rigged as shown. My halyard is JUST long enough to do its assigned job and not a foot more.

Which got me thinking. What if you need the main halyard to retrieve a man-overboard ? You can snap onto the Life-Sling rope for that.

Worth thinking about though, especially if wife is the one who handles the boat and winch, and you are incapacitated, ie. can't just swim around to the ladder and climb out.

As far as going up the mast, I may think about adding 12ft length when the main halyard needs replacing.

R

lindaloo said:

View attachment 15967View attachment 15966

I just tried it and going from cabin-top to port primary works well, there should be no wraps over-riding.

Only problem is, the main halyard snap-shackle is 4ft below the bottom spreaders by the time it is rigged as shown. My halyard is JUST long enough to do its assigned job and not a foot more.

Which got me thinking. What if you need the main halyard to retrieve a man-overboard ? You can snap onto the Life-Sling rope for that.

Worth thinking about though, especially if wife is the one who handles the boat and winch, and you are incapacitated, ie. can't just swim around to the ladder and climb out.

As far as going up the mast, I may think about adding 12ft length when the main halyard needs replacing.

R

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm not visualizing the set up correctly, but no overrides with that angle? I just tried a new set up tonight and all the angles seem to be fair. Took it to a toe rail genoa car, and added a small bit of line at the mast block to clear the cabin top...

Prusik Knot

Here's a link to an article I read a while back for climbing the mast. It involves using two slip knots called a prusik knot. When it comes time to climb my mast, I think I will trust this more than the winches. Sure the winches will get me up OK, I just hope the person on deck can lower my 200+ pounds down SLOWLY.

http://www.oceannavigator.com/September-2012/Mast-climbing-techniques/

I was a rock climber long before I was a sailor so its natural for me to ascend the main halyard like a climber instead of being hoisted by it like a sailor.
I use a prusik and a Petzl Grigri which allows me to repel of quickly when I'm done. My brother who has also done some climbing much prefers two ascenders instead and walks his way back down.
It can also be done with a pair of prusik knots, and this is what I carried when Rock climbing multi-pitch when you could take a fall and still be hundreds of feet above the ground with no way to get back onto the wall and not enough rope to lower all the way back down.

I prefer to ascend and descend my self rather than have someone else try to hoist me up while I scramble to help, and then be dangerously let back down.

I think most people being "hoisted" are still pulling themselves up the mast anyway, and then they are climbing the mast without a proper foot hold and being belayed by a helper on the winch. this system is difficult for both parties involved and dangerous for one.

Ascending my self is actually much easier as I have a proven system to climb with instead of looking like the fat kid in gym class on the rope climb. Properly ascending is also vastly safer, If at any time I let go I have two systems automatically belaying me (the Grigri and the prusik) which doesn't require somebody else paying attention. (or not) I wold never get on a rock wall belayed by a deck winch!

As stated earlier a climbing harness is also incredibly safe, although not as comfortable for long rides as the bosuns chair. In my climbing career I have taken hundreds of falls. I have taken 30' free falls, I have dropped upside down. I have fallen off overhangs on multi-pitch routs hundreds of feet in the air, and I have never needed to worry about coming lose from the safety of my harness.

I also have a set of screwdrivers on tethers with carabiners so that nobody gets a philips in the face while Im up there, not to mention saving un-needed trips back down to retrieve tools.

El mundo de Shelman:

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Belay-devices--descenders/GRIGRI-2#.VPixMPnF98E

(Really good rock climbing gear showcase)

But I must think more on this, and whether ascenders are right for my age and strength.

I too have done some technical climbing, and I would NOT recommend anyone use a prusik hitch for climbing unless they have a lot of experience. Just get yourself a well padded harness (not a chair) and pair it with a block and tackle or line climbing rig with ascenders.

Shelman
I used to do a lot of climbing and repelling in Pennslyvania and West Virginia back in my younger days. Carried 150' of Bluewater Rope, a harness and some beaners' in my vehicle because you never know when a good rock is going to present itself.

For some reason the deck winch thing has bothered me. Kind of like we were taught never to trust a tree on a rock face.
Rick

I also wear a climbing harness and use ascenders. I tie off the spinnaker halyard on deck and just climb that. It's a little fiddly; I use a foot strap on one ascender and connect my harness to the other, but I imagine any other approach would be just as fiddly. I probably should include a Prusik attached to my harness just for a redundant feature. Before ascenders, I used to use Bachmann knots (a modified Prusik incorporating a carabiner which acts as a handle, making the knot easier to slide). The best feature of the harness/ascenders approach is the fact that it can be done alone...safely.

I tried winching someone up tonight with the set up in my photo above, and it worked well. I have size 52 primary winches, and hoisting someone was no problem. I'm not a climber, but I don't see what's sketchy about hoisting someone with a winch. Going back down was even easier. With two wraps around the winch, you could apply enough pressure on the drum with your finger. I see an uncontrolled descent unlikely. However, if you want to go up on your own, that's another story.

Mark

mkollerjr said:

I tried winching someone up tonight with the set up in my photo above, and it worked well. I have size 52 primary winches, and hoisting someone was no problem. I'm not a climber, but I don't see what's sketchy about hoisting someone with a winch. Going back down was even easier. With two wraps around the winch, you could apply enough pressure on the drum with your finger. I see an uncontrolled descent unlikely. However, if you want to go up on your own, that's another story.

Mark

Click to expand...

That's good to know, and I'm not surprised that the 52s made the job doable. But even with our 52s my wife couldn't hoist me up, and there was no way she was going aloft. So like many sailing couples I had to come up with a single handed option to get myself aloft, and I imagine I was not alone in that.