leak at mast collar

In all this rain in NCal, I have discovered a leak which I believe to be in the collar which surrounds the mast on my 87 E34. Taking off the wood trim underneath in the cabin, I cannot see the nuts, the headliner is in the way. Anyone ever had this collar off?

Lots of water comes down the mast when it rains. Welcome to the E-34.

I suppose the collar can leak like any deck fitting, but I don't remember anyone bringing it up before.

You should, of course, have a rubber, PVC, or whatever boot around the base of the mast at the deck.

I knew about the water coming down the inside of the mast but this was coming on the outside of the mast just under the wood trim of the headliner. I removed a sunbrella covering which protected the rubber mast seal and the rubber looked OK but when viewed from inside the cabin, I could see daylight through a section of the rubber where the leak was. The rubber was worn so thin in one spot that you could actually see daylight.

I bought a rubber mast boot that is slit, glued and clamped around the mast but it is too wet to do that work now. So as a quickie fix, I wrapped a sheet of 3 mil poly around the mast on top of the leaky rubber but when I test my fix with a hose, the leak was still there. I am going to check tomorrow but right now I think some of the bolts holding the collar onto the cabin roof are leaking. I am sure these are thru bolted with nuts and washers under the headliner, maybe even a backing plate if Ericson did things right.

But my problem is, and always has been, that the beautiful headliner hides the bolts. I removed the wood trim around the mast and how I will carefully remove the staples allowing me to get my hand behind the headliner to see if any bolts are loose. But I am afraid I will have to remove the collar completely and re bed it.

So again has anyone had to remove the collar. I will remove all the lines going to the collar, the main and jib halyards, main sheet and the reef lines, then see if the bolts are loose. Let you all know what I find out.

HerbertFriedman said:

I knew about the water coming down the inside of the mast but this was coming on the outside of the mast just under the wood trim of the headliner. I removed a sunbrella covering which protected the rubber mast seal and the rubber looked OK but when viewed from inside the cabin, I could see daylight through a section of the rubber where the leak was. The rubber was worn so thin in one spot that you could actually see daylight.

I bought a rubber mast boot that is slit, glued and clamped around the mast but it is too wet to do that work now. So as a quickie fix, I wrapped a sheet of 3 mil poly around the mast on top of the leaky rubber but when I test my fix with a hose, the leak was still there. I am going to check tomorrow but right now I think some of the bolts holding the collar onto the cabin roof are leaking. I am sure these are thru bolted with nuts and washers under the headliner, maybe even a backing plate if Ericson did things right.

But my problem is, and always has been, that the beautiful headliner hides the bolts. I removed the wood trim around the mast and how I will carefully remove the staples allowing me to get my hand behind the headliner to see if any bolts are loose. But I am afraid I will have to remove the collar completely and re bed it.

So again has anyone had to remove the collar. I will remove all the lines going to the collar, the main and jib halyards, main sheet and the reef lines, then see if the bolts are loose. Let you all know what I find out.

Click to expand...

Our boat came with leaks under that nice-looking Kenyon vinyl boot. I found that the "boot" was intended to be mounted on the base of the spar before the spar was stepped. Fine for the initial owner and OK for a few years. Problem was that UV was deteriorating the material. In any case the yard sliced the boot down one side -- it could be reinstalled after the spar was in and the joint crudely covered with sealant.
The basic design, with the long clamp around the top and bottom of it was indeed clever, but when Kenyon went out of business the source of new mast boots (along with their nifty spreader covers!) vanished.


A friend who has a lot of ocean races on custom boats to his credit, told me to do "whatever it takes" including layers of sealant and plastic to stop all water. Then cover it with a good-looking Sunbrella cover.
We did that a number of years ago and have never had a drop of water leak down the outside of the spar since.

About the teak collar inside... I took ours off and refinished it. Yard (or someone) had broken it in two anyway. I epoxied it together and then cut into two tidy halves. Still attached with a screw on each side. I varnished it and put a short ss pin on each end surface and a corresponding hole opposite each pin. That way when both halves are held up and pushed together, the screws are inserted and it looks very "finished".
Above our vinyl/fabric headliner is a plywood piece - with the nuts on bolts for the ss plate on top that carries the base turning blocks - surrounding the molded opening in the cabin top and while it has no rot, there was a lot of water staining from neglect of seepage by the first owner. That water seepage had migrated out each side under the fabric, corroding out the zipper pulls on each side (I have replaced them) and even allowing some water stains on the inside cabin sides.

One more thing: the track on the back should be well plugged with a lot sealant where it goes thru the deck.

Regards,
Loren
ps: prior thread with picture of boot cover.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?7588-Mast-Boot-35-3

thanks for the information. I Know the rubber sheet mast boot is leaking because I can see daylight through it on one spot but I have sealed that leak for now with lots of 3 mil poly sheet, hose clamps, etc. But I do believe that some of the bolts holding the metal collar (that supports all the turning blocks) are leaking. So with that in mind:

1. I am sure that collar is thru bolted but is there a backing plate or backing ring or just fender washers under the bolts?

2. I do not have a thick teak ring in the cabin around the mast, just some thin teak trim boards, which I have removed, but I still cannot see nuts because of the vinyl headliner. Did you just remove the staples and slip your hand or wrench under the headliner to get at the nuts? If so, is this possible to do with the mast in place?

3. I do not have any zippers near the mast, but I do have one zipper elsewhere that is stuck, how did you replace the zipper head? I have looked on line and it seems very difficult to do with the headliner in place plus these are spiral zippers not the kind with individual teeth.

4. Is the cabin area around the mast all fiberglass or double skin with plywood, I am worried about rot. I know there is a fiberglass ring around the mast, i.e. partners with the metal collar outside of that ring but is the construction all glass, glass with plywood, etc?

Teak and Zippers

HerbertFriedman said:

thanks for the information. I Know the rubber sheet mast boot is leaking because I can see daylight through it on one spot but I have sealed that leak for now with lots of 3 mil poly sheet, hose clamps, etc. But I do believe that some of the bolts holding the metal collar (that supports all the turning blocks) are leaking. So with that in mind:

1. I am sure that collar is thru bolted but is there a backing plate or backing ring or just fender washers under the bolts?

2. I do not have a thick teak ring in the cabin around the mast, just some thin teak trim boards, which I have removed, but I still cannot see nuts because of the vinyl headliner. Did you just remove the staples and slip your hand or wrench under the headliner to get at the nuts? If so, is this possible to do with the mast in place?

3. I do not have any zippers near the mast, but I do have one zipper elsewhere that is stuck, how did you replace the zipper head? I have looked on line and it seems very difficult to do with the headliner in place plus these are spiral zippers not the kind with individual teeth.

4. Is the cabin area around the mast all fiberglass or double skin with plywood, I am worried about rot. I know there is a fiberglass ring around the mast, i.e. partners with the metal collar outside of that ring but is the construction all glass, glass with plywood, etc?

Click to expand...

There should be a thick plywood backing plate. Or at least our boat has one. The nuts inside are recessed into it.

We have the teak trim piece and I will append some pix. Under that teak will be a lot of staples holding the head liner in place under tension.

While the coil part of the zipper is nylon and should last a lifetime, the zipper pulls are painted aluminum castings and most of ours were reduced to white gritty oxide when we got our boat. Fabric stores will have new ones at around $.50 each. There are past threads here about fitting the obnoxious little buggers back onto the zipper tracks.

The cabin top is cored with balsa except at the mast base, AFAIK. That is where the dense plywood was fitted to take the lifting force from the halyard blocks on the ss mast base above it.

When you get time, do post some pictures of your boat in this area.

Regards,
Loren

Few pics and a comment or two.

I did this same job last fall. You can see I had the same issue. Most of the detail has been covered by Loren and the gang. I would only add that I used Butyl tape when I rebedded the collar. I left my lines in place which were handy to keep the collar up out of the way while laying down the tape. Just tighten up a few lines and it will hold the collar up above the deck. Last thing, I put a ring of Butyl around the head of each bolt when installing, this means that you need to tighten the nut down and hold the bolt stationary so that the head does not spin and spit out the tape.

If you use Butyl tape tighten the bolts in steps, this will allow squeeze out.

Thanks all for the great photos and detail. Turns out I missed the bullet on this one. With careful hose control, I convinced myself that the bolts on the collar were not the source of my leak and that it was a tear in the black rubber sheet that some boat yard had fitted onto the mast (hose clamp at the top, the rubber folded over and hose clamped to the inner ring of the collar). Dont know when the mast was last pulled but somehow that rubber sheet developed a cut right at the inner collar, you could see daylight looking up from the cabin with the sunbrella cover off. I had tried to wrap Gorilla tape around the mast (that stuff sticks to anything) but alas, the leak was still there.

I finally bought a Mast Boot, a white rubber sheet that you slit, wrap around the mast, seal with rubber cement and hose clamp in place. It actually worked, although I did cut it a bit too short, so the outer hose clamp barely fits. But the leak stopped, yea, one for our side.

But I still would like to know how you all got at all those nuts holding the collar onto the deck. I too have zipper going the full width of the cabin just aft of the mast and I can get at a few nuts but no way I could get at the rest of the nuts. Do you just remove the staples, pry the vinyl back and stick a wrench or socket in there to tighten the nuts? If you go the route of butyl tape you need to tighten the nuts while holding the head of the bolts from turning. Is all the easy to do with the vinyl headliner pried apart? Or did you replace some of the headliner.

Also, can you direct me to some previous threads on how to replace a corroded zipper pull with the headliner in place.

But the boat sail much better with the leak fixed! Happy holidays to all.

HerbertFriedman said:

Thanks all for the great photos and detail. Turns out I missed the bullet on this one. With careful hose control, I convinced myself that the bolts on the collar were not the source of my leak and that it was a tear in the black rubber sheet that some boat yard had fitted onto the mast (hose clamp at the top, the rubber folded over and hose clamped to the inner ring of the collar). Dont know when the mast was last pulled but somehow that rubber sheet developed a cut right at the inner collar, you could see daylight looking up from the cabin with the sunbrella cover off. I had tried to wrap Gorilla tape around the mast (that stuff sticks to anything) but alas, the leak was still there.

I finally bought a Mast Boot, a white rubber sheet that you slit, wrap around the mast, seal with rubber cement and hose clamp in place. It actually worked, although I did cut it a bit too short, so the outer hose clamp barely fits. But the leak stopped, yea, one for our side.

But I still would like to know how you all got at all those nuts holding the collar onto the deck. I too have zipper going the full width of the cabin just aft of the mast and I can get at a few nuts but no way I could get at the rest of the nuts. Do you just remove the staples, pry the vinyl back and stick a wrench or socket in there to tighten the nuts? If you go the route of butyl tape you need to tighten the nuts while holding the head of the bolts from turning. Is all the easy to do with the vinyl headliner pried apart? Or did you replace some of the headliner.

Also, can you direct me to some previous threads on how to replace a corroded zipper pull with the headliner in place.

But the boat sail much better with the leak fixed! Happy holidays to all.

Click to expand...

Here's a thread and there are probably others.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?8461-Zipper-Pull-Repair
Loren

thanks for the thread, got lots of reading to do.

Head liner around mast

Herbert,

Here's a shot of the headliner around the mast with the molding removed. I was able to pull the staples and then stretch the fabric enough the get a socket on the nuts.