• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Eriscon 38 / 120-Volt Wiring Diagram / Adding 15 Amp Circuit

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Hello All,

I'm a relatively new owner of a 1990 Ericson 38, and I live aboard in the Puget Sound. Anyways, we've been having some cold weather lately (dipping into the 20's at night), and I've found I can't plug in much heat or many appliances to the existing stock 15-amp outlet circuit before the breaker trips. My 1.5 kW West Marine heater can barely keep the boat in the 50's, and draws almost all of the 15 amps I have available in the outlet circuit.

I have a friend with a 1989 C&C 30 MKII, and he says his boat is wired up with two 15 amp outlet circuits - one for port and one for starboard. He can plug in as much heat as he needs.

So, I want to look at wiring a new 15-amp circuit. There is an existing spare breaker in the panel I could use. I've found a wiring diagram on this site of the earlier version E38's, but can't find one for the later versions. I'm not sure if anybody has done something similar, or has a wiring diagram for the later E38's.

Thanks!
Mark
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Hi Mark,

I don't live aboard, but I try to do a lot of work on the boat in the water during the winter. I added a second AC circuit with a single outlet for my heater last winter. I had the extra AC breaker in the panel already and enough cable left over. My existing receptacle circuit worked fine for me except when I had the heater going and then used the vac or a drill, so I just added the new GFCI outlet (on it's own breaker) in a location near where I put the heater. It was fairly close to the AC panel, easy to access from behind and also centrally located in the boat for other potential uses. This setup also lets me run two heaters at the same time in the dead of winter, but with the return of the previous problem - have to shut down heater #2 to drill, vac or make coffee. Two heaters can keep my open layout interior close to 70 even with water at freezing and temps in the 20s.

Another option is to split the existing receptacles into two separate 15A circuits with a breaker for each. This might be of additional benefit if you have other things than the heaters competing for the 15 amps. You could also add outlets to either circuit in areas like the galley where you need them.

Mark
 
Last edited:

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Thanks for the feedback! I think I will just add a single GFCI outlet underneath the nav table and wire it to the existing 15 amp spare breaker. It seems to be a nice central location where we usually plug in the heater, and would be a straight shot requiring only about 3-ft of wire.

Mark
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Adding another circuit is a good idea, certainly, but I wonder if the breaker is getting old and is tripping at a lower current than specified? My boat (1980 E-38) is up in the yard and I took an extra heater yesterday to dry out the area under the cockpit prior to doing repairs. It was a little Pelonis ceramic heater that is not safe to leave unattended. I also had a oil-filled radiator plugged in and I discovered that the Outlets breaker tripped any time that both were turned on. I'm going to check the draw on these two heaters and see if that should happen. It was really inconvenient because I was also trying to use an electric drill to clean up some mast and boom hardware.

Adding a second circuit is a good idea though, and I have some leftover 14-3 boat cable that would be perfect for this project.
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Thanks for the reply. The breaker seems to be tripping as designed, which is good. The 1.5 kW heater draws about 12.5 amps (1500W / 120V = 12.5A). That only leaves us 2.5 amps to spare, so trying to plug much else in makes the 15 amp breaker trip.

In the evening, we turn off the heater to run the toaster oven to make food, and in the morning, we turn off the heater to run the espresso machine. Trying to run any two at the same time trips the breaker. I know, first world problems!

Mark
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Mark,
Yes, your breaker seems to be on spec.

I need to see if I have a spare spot in my AC Panel. I think I do. I have a diesel heater (DC) that I could run, so I'm going to look at that. I'll have to run the battery charger after a while, so I guess I should check the ammeter with it and the oil heater running for after I leave the boat.

Warmer air coming in today and tomorrow! Rain too. Are you able to keep the condensation under control in this weather?

Craig
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Circuit

Mark,

I have an E-34 not in Puget sound but in the Straights of Juan De Fuca (Port Angeles). I guess I like chest beating sailing. I took a cruise to the San Juans a couple of weeks ago (the week of big winds, clear skies, and cold. My West heater could only run at about half power and managed a top temp of 52.3 degrees. Thank goodness for the diesel heater (which, in my case runs on kerosene).

When playing with this electricity stuff, great care must be taken. The main breaker must be large enough and the feed wiring from the cockpit must be checked to ensure that it can handle the extra load without overheating. This is really important with a live aboard as you will tax the system. I would also consider increasing the 15 amp circuit to 20 amps. This would allow the West heater to run full bore and you probably won't need that second heater. From memory, the panel wiring is large enough to do this. The second circuit is a great addition so you can still run your microwaves, computers, etc. on circuit one without overloading the heater circuit.

Bob Morrison
E-34 "Terra Nova"
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Re: condensation

Craig,

Regarding the condensation, it hasn't been too much of an issue. In this colder weather (i.e. 30's and below), we have been trying not to use the propane stove/oven much, or take showers on the boat, due to the moisture created (hence the use of the toaster oven). I always try and keep the hatches cracked open on the minimum setting (which doesn't help with the heating). I've found it's no issue to keep the boat warm and ventilated when the temperatures are above 40F.

We were battling condensation under the v-berth for awhile, and tried a few different methods to fix it (i.e. ventilation mat underneath). Nothing seemed to work, every morning the underside of the cushions would be soaked. Finally we broke down and got the Froli system for our v-berth and the problem was solved! Not to mention a more comfortable bed. I highly recommend it. http://froli-systems.myshopify.com/products/froli-travel-v-berth-kits

We bought the large v-berth kit, and with shipping it came in just under $300. We probably could have gotten by with the regular size kit. Either way, it was money well spent.

Mark
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Re: 20 Amps

Bob,

Thanks for the input. It gives me the shivers just thinking about going sailing when you did!

An electrical engineer I work with also recommended running the new circuit at 20 amps, and up-sizing the wire. I just may do this.

I will also be sure to check all the existing wire for condition and proper size. Hopefully I can get to it this weekend...after I re-wire my bilge pump.

Mark
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
Add circuit

Mark,

The late season sail was actually bracing. Day one was 45 miles to the windward from Port Angeles to Friday Harbor ( 37 actual distance plus tacking) I arrived after dark to a chaotic scene. Friday Harbor is replacing all it's docks and pile driving new metal posts. There were a million extra lights and barges and cranes to slip past. The SJYC reciprocal was open so I docked there. Gale warnings were up and the winds arrived after 0100. Forty five knots according to my electronics. It was hard to sleep due to all the noise in the harbor. Next day, I went shopping (They actually have a West Marine). None of that good type of stuff exists in my berg. Next day I took off for Roche Harbor. It was 18 knots at the point so I set the full 130 and a single reef in the main. Within 10 minutes, the wind was up to 22-25 knots. Very exciting. 9+ knots on a beam reach. A little wild for a single hander as the boat was barely under control. I just dumped the main (sort of got it tied to the boom). It was fun to do that as the boat was still doing 8 knots under the jib only but the boat was now totally under control. This is important around the top of San Juan Island as the currents are very squirrelly. When I dumped the jib off Roche Harbor, the furling system was really complaining but I got the tightest furl that I ever had. The boat was healing about 15 degrees with no sail up. Interesting docking singlehanded. No gouges in the hull. After a layover day, the return trip was anticlimactic. 5-10 knot beam reach. I adjusted the sails every couple of hours and let the autopilot do the work. Great sail but I kind of walked around like a penguin due to all the clothing layers.

My boat is very like yours including the same waterline length. Most systems are the same. Somehow Bruce King lost about 3 feet. Mine is 34' 10". Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart from the outside. I'm surprised how similar our systems are (overly complicated).

Please let us know how your 110 improvements go. I, for one, will probably upgrade.

Bob Morrison
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Froli System

Very interesting. Thank goodness they have that 4th and 5th picture on the website. Until I got some sense of scale I was thinking they were maybe a couple inches square. We have a firm cushion, a mattress (like a stuffed, quilted casing) and under that we have the hard vinyl squares that stand off the plywood about 1/2". We don't do much winter sailing, but now that we're retired we expect to do more.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Mark,

The late season sail was actually bracing. Day one was 45 miles to the windward from Port Angeles to Friday Harbor ( 37 actual distance plus tacking) I arrived after dark to a chaotic scene. Friday Harbor is replacing all it's docks and pile driving new metal posts. There were a million extra lights and barges and cranes to slip past. The SJYC reciprocal was open so I docked there. Gale warnings were up and the winds arrived after 0100. Forty five knots according to my electronics. It was hard to sleep due to all the noise in the harbor. Next day, I went shopping (They actually have a West Marine). None of that good type of stuff exists in my berg. Next day I took off for Roche Harbor. It was 18 knots at the point so I set the full 130 and a single reef in the main. Within 10 minutes, the wind was up to 22-25 knots. Very exciting. 9+ knots on a beam reach. A little wild for a single hander as the boat was barely under control. I just dumped the main (sort of got it tied to the boom). It was fun to do that as the boat was still doing 8 knots under the jib only but the boat was now totally under control. This is important around the top of San Juan Island as the currents are very squirrelly. When I dumped the jib off Roche Harbor, the furling system was really complaining but I got the tightest furl that I ever had. The boat was healing about 15 degrees with no sail up. Interesting docking singlehanded. No gouges in the hull. After a layover day, the return trip was anticlimactic. 5-10 knot beam reach. I adjusted the sails every couple of hours and let the autopilot do the work. Great sail but I kind of walked around like a penguin due to all the clothing layers.

My boat is very like yours including the same waterline length. Most systems are the same. Somehow Bruce King lost about 3 feet. Mine is 34' 10". Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart from the outside. I'm surprised how similar our systems are (overly complicated).

Please let us know how your 110 improvements go. I, for one, will probably upgrade.

Bob Morrison
Great post! What a blessing that you got to the dock before that gale hit!
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
All of the original AC wiring on the 80s vintage E-32, 34, & 35 is 14-3. I assume the other boats of the time are the same. This means that you shouldn't up the breaker size to 20 amps.

One consideration in running heaters is the voltage drop on the dock. You won't get much heat if the dock voltage is low.

In my marina it's the damnedest thing... everyone runs their heaters on the same nights. :rolleyes: No idea why, but it's hell on the voltage. It's worse on the hard because of smaller wire in the ground and longer runs to the 20 amp power posts
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Re: wire gauge

Yes, the existing 15 amp outlet circuit is 14-3 wire on my 1990 E38. I don't plan on touching that. The new 20 amp circuit I plan on adding for a dedicated outlet will require 12-3 wire.

Mark
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Pictures of the extra AC circuit

Finally got a picture of the heater pugged in to show its location. My nav station and AC panel are on stbd just aft of the settee on the right side of the picture. My cable run was about 9 feet and easy, through storage spaces under the settee and pilot berth. I labeled the GFCI receptacle with the circuit name to differentiate it from the other outlets.

Mark
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1148.jpg
    IMG_1148.jpg
    106.8 KB · Views: 74
  • IMG_1149.jpg
    IMG_1149.jpg
    110.3 KB · Views: 53
  • IMG_0663.jpg
    IMG_0663.jpg
    106.7 KB · Views: 47
Last edited:

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
Thanks for the photos! I got side-tracked on some other stuff this weekend, but hopefully soon I will add the outlet (i.e. before the next cold snap).

Mark
 

smallsalley35

New Member
Breakers, 110v and 12v

I own a 1984 E35 MK III, I am having a time finding the toggle type 110v and 12 v circuit breakers, I don't want to replace the panel any help please.
 

footrope

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I own a 1984 E35 MK III, I am having a time finding the toggle type 110v and 12 v circuit breakers, I don't want to replace the panel any help please.

Are you referring to these type breakers in the picture? This is a Blue Seas panel from the 90's I think. It could be original (1980), but I'm not sure.

AC_Panel02.jpg
 
Top