• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Adding a removable inner stay

Gregoryulrich

Member III
A friend and I got caught out in the Santa Anna winds this past weekend. We were anchored in Paradise Cove and were caught completely by surprise on Sunday morning. The news reports were saying sustained 47 knots which jibes with the NOAA weather reports. It was a pretty dicey situation heading back to Marina Del Rey due to a few equipment failures and we were totally over canvassed with no option for additional reefing. We were doing 7 knots for a while with just a corner of the genoa out and no main but the lee helm was horrific and we had no hope of making the marina until the wind died down due to excessive leeway.

My main has only one reefing point but it is old and there's not much point to adding a second or third reef. I'm planning on a new main and genoa next year. The main will definitely have additional reefing points and will probably be battenless.

I'm thinking of adding an external track on the mast for trysail and a removable inner forestay for a storm staysail. How would I tie in the staysail deck connection? Would I add another stay from the underside of the the deck to the forepeak inside the vee berth?
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, it's hard to sail at all in 47 knots, especially in any direction you might want to go. It's sea-anchor time, or in Paradise Cove, anchor time. Wait for a change.

Regarding the need for additional expensive equipment, my guess is this will be a rare event in your local sailing life. The weather forecasts are pretty accurate, and Santa Anas are the one event we have to be alert to this time of year.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Well, it's hard to sail at all in 47 knots, especially in any direction you might want to go. It's sea-anchor time, or in Paradise Cove, anchor time. Wait for a change.

Regarding the need for additional expensive equipment, my guess is this will be a rare event in your local sailing life. The weather forecasts are pretty accurate, and Santa Anas are the one event we have to be alert to this time of year.
I think Christian's advice is sound on all counts. You would have done well to stay put in Paradise Cove. The NE Santa Ana would not put you on a lee shore so why not just hang on and ride it out? Seems like Paradise Cove would be a reasonably protected place to be.
 

Gregoryulrich

Member III
I would have liked nothing more than to stay put. That was the plan. Winds normally come out of the west over the top of point Dume then clock around from the east at night but usually not too badly. The Santa Anna's came directly out of the north and built up really quickly. The force broke my stern anchor free and we swung around for a while until the prop or rudder must have become snagged on a kelp bed which held us beam on to the winds. We dragged maybe a quarter mile until we were in line with Little Dume. The winds then shifted to the east blowing us toward the rocks. We were dragging quite a bit so we decided to split. It was pretty frightening.

Strangely enough there was another E27 there called Dawn Patrol. They were anchored much closer to the pier than we were. They motored out and stayed really close to shore. I think we picked up some kelp in the raw water cooling because the engine overheated and started smoking. I thought I was going to have a fire on my hands too.
 

Gregoryulrich

Member III
Thank you for the advice Christian. Windfinder is off the team. NOAA and aviation TAFs are my primary source for weather from now on. Real weather is such a rare event here in So Cal. I'm never making that mistake again.
 
Last edited:

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
I would have liked nothing more than to stay put. That was the plan. Winds normally come out of the west over the top of point Dume then clock around from the east at night but usually not too badly. The Santa Anna's came directly out of the north and built up really quickly. The force broke my stern anchor free and we swung around for a while until the prop or rudder must have become snagged on a kelp bed which held us beam on to the winds. We dragged maybe a quarter mile until we were in line with Little Dume. The winds then shifted to the east blowing us toward the rocks. We were dragging quite a bit so we decided to split. It was pretty frightening.

Strangely enough there was another E27 there called Dawn Patrol. They were anchored much closer to the pier than we were. They motored out and stayed really close to shore. I think we picked up some kelp in the raw water cooling because the engine overheated and started smoking. I thought I was going to have a fire on my hands too.
Wow! Sounds like you really had your hands full! I'm glad you made it back OK.

Just out of curiosity, what do you have for anchor tackle?
 
Last edited:

Gregoryulrich

Member III
It was a lot to deal with but we managed to keep our wits about us. When the boat was beam to the wind I was suited up with a dive knife and ready to jump overboard overboard to try and cut loose whatever was hanging us up. I think we would have held in place if this had not happened. I'm glad I held off because whatever it was broke loose minutes later but by that time we were in over 40 feet of water and way more exposed to the winds. It was a really strange situation being dragged beam to the wind. When I pulled the bow anchor up it was completely fouled with kelp. I had the engine out of gear and I think it was the kelp that I cut away which got sucked up into the engine.

I had a Danforth 12 on 50 ft of chain plus another 160 ft of nylon rode payed out on the bow for a total of 210 feet. I kedged out a Danforth 7 on 25 feet of chain and about 130 feet of nylon on the stern. This was the obvious weak point and I wouldn't have expected it to hold in those conditions. We were in 24 feet of water at the low tide when we arrived and 30 feet in the high tide.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
It was a lot to deal with but we managed to keep our wits about us. When the boat was beam to the wind I was suited up with a dive knife and ready to jump overboard overboard to try and cut loose whatever was hanging us up. I think we would have held in place if this had not happened. I'm glad I held off because whatever it was broke loose minutes later but by that time we were in over 40 feet of water and way more exposed to the winds. It was a really strange situation being dragged beam to the wind. When I pulled the bow anchor up it was completely fouled with kelp. I had the engine out of gear and I think it was the kelp that I cut away which got sucked up into the engine.

I had a Danforth 12 on 50 ft of chain plus another 160 ft of nylon rode payed out on the bow for a total of 210 feet. I kedged out a Danforth 7 on 25 feet of chain and about 130 feet of nylon on the stern. This was the obvious weak point and I wouldn't have expected it to hold in those conditions. We were in 24 feet of water at the low tide when we arrived and 30 feet in the high tide.
FWIW, and in keeping with your original question, if I were to do an upgrade as a result of this experience I'd suggest improving your anchor tackle. I believe what you've got is pretty marginal generally and is certainly so for those conditions, as you discovered. Not only is your 12# Danforth on the light side (and your 7# one extremely so) but Danforth anchors do not always reset well in wind shifts, such as what you described earlier.

On my E26-2, a lighter boat than yours, I have a 22# Rocna (10KG) and a 16# Fortress for my stern hook. The Rocna (and "roll bar" anchors like it) reset themselves well in a wind shift. I also think the Fortress is the best of the Danforth-style anchors. You don't have to go nuts with the chain, though you do need enough to prevent chafe. Contrary to what may be the conventional wisdom, the weight of the chain does not really do much--very little if anything, really, in conditions like those--but the amount of scope is quite important. (See http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php) (You may have been OK scope-wise when you first anchored, but once you dragged into 40' depth then your problem was compounded by inadequate scope.) I've got maybe 30' or 35' of chain and I think that's plenty. The setup is light enough that I am able to deploy and retrieve it without requiring a windlass, so this allows me to keep the installation simple.
 

Gregoryulrich

Member III
FWIW, and in keeping with your original question, if I were to do an upgrade as a result of this experience I'd suggest improving your anchor tackle. I believe what you've got is pretty marginal generally and is certainly so for those conditions, as you discovered. Not only is your 12# Danforth on the light side (and your 7# one extremely so) but Danforth anchors do not always reset well in wind shifts, such as what you described earlier.

On my E26-2, a lighter boat than yours, I have a 22# Rocna (10KG) and a 16# Fortress for my stern hook. The Rocna (and "roll bar" anchors like it) reset themselves well in a wind shift. I also think the Fortress is the best of the Danforth-style anchors. You don't have to go nuts with the chain, though you do need enough to prevent chafe. Contrary to what may be the conventional wisdom, the weight of the chain does not really do much--very little if anything, really, in conditions like those--but the amount of scope is quite important. (See http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php) (You may have been OK scope-wise when you first anchored, but once you dragged into 40' depth then your problem was compounded by inadequate scope.) I've got maybe 30' or 35' of chain and I think that's plenty. The setup is light enough that I am able to deploy and retrieve it without requiring a windlass, so this allows me to keep the installation simple.

Yes for sure that's on the list. I'm going to ditch the 5# Danforth and 5kg Bruce, move the 12# Danforth to the stern and upgrade the bow anchor and rode. I've heard great things about the Rocna anchors but unfortunately that means also adding a bow roller.
 
Top