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inspecting a 1975 Ericson 27-2 purchase

df1995

Member I
Hi fellow sailors!

I'm brand-new here. I just won a 1975 Ericson 27-2 in an eBay auction for $869 with supposedly a main and foresails in "excellent" condition and an 8.5hp Toshiba outboard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171464905758?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

With this kind of auction, the buyer cannot inspect the boat until winning it. It can be rejected then if the buyer chooses. Presumably, I will meet the prior owner, who donated it to the charity, at the same time.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions for what I should especially look for on this old girl. Perhaps someone local would be kind enough to accompany me on my inspection?

I have a modest amount of sailing experience but not much experience with maintenance and inspection.

I'm in southern California. My "new" Ericson is a slip in Long Beach
 

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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Congratulations on your new boat! It sounds like a great deal, though at that price it will likely take some work, but that can be fun and a great learning experience. If you find someone with experience to accompany you, that would be great, but if not, there is a book by Don Casey titled Inspecting the Aging Sailboat which covers many of the things you should look at. You might find it in a library or at a good book store or sailboat chandlery. I would suggest reading it, and any similar books you come across before you have to meet the owner.

Good luck!

Frank
 

df1995

Member I
inspecting a 1975 E-27-2 purchase

I'm especially concerned about checking the chainplates on such an old boat but I have no idea how to do it because they are glassed-in.
 

df1995

Member I
inspecting an e-27-2

Congratulations on your new boat! It sounds like a great deal, though at that price it will likely take some work, but that can be fun and a great learning experience. If you find someone with experience to accompany you, that would be great, but if not, there is a book by Don Casey titled Inspecting the Aging Sailboat which covers many of the things you should look at. You might find it in a library or at a good book store or sailboat chandlery. I would suggest reading it, and any similar books you come across before you have to meet the owner.

Good luck!

Frank

With an auction like this one just never knows what the boat will turn out to be. Hopefully this old girl was donated by a fantastically rich person who maintained it well and just could not be bothered to sell it himself!
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I don't know about the likelihood of a "fantastically rich person", but you never know. :rolleyes:

I'm no expert, but although chain plates need to be solid/not corroded, I would be more concerned with blisters in the hull, leaks leading to water intrusion into the deck around various fittings which could mean rotten balsa core in these areas, evidence of the boat having sunk at some point which would affect lots of things including the wiring, evidence of grounding or collision affecting structural integrity, softness/weakness at the mast step, condition of the rudder, and other things along these lines.

Even if the chain plates are corroded, it's not a huge job to replace them, so I would see other things as more critical. If you can't get someone knowledgeable to go with you, I wonder if you could hire a marine surveyor to do a cursory inspection for you for a little bit of money--ie. not a full inspection but just the critical stuff (though you might eventually need a full inspection for insurance purposes anyway).

Keep us posted!

Frank
 

dt222

Member III
Chain plates

For the price that you paid, for my inspection I'd look at the major items- safety (all through-hulls operable and not leaking, engine runs well, sails/rig/rigging in reasonable shape, no delaminations or blisters).


In my '75 '27, I can inspect the chain plates by removing the plywood inserts (port and starboard) that are above the shelves in the cabin nearest the bulkheads.

If she floats without leaks, and the engine runs and the sails are reasonable, most everything else in maintenance.

Congrats and good luck.
 

Macgyro

Amazingly Still Afloat
Blogs Author
Surveyors are wonderful resources

Just my 2 cents, but when I got an insurance survey done on my boat, the surveyor compiled a list of problems that needed to be addressed and a comment on how important each one was. The insurance survey was fairly quick, cost about $500, and I'm still working on some of the issues the surveyor pointed out as "very important". There are different types of surveys based on what you want to accomplish. If you're actually concerned about blisters and the like, you can haul it out as I did to have the survey done. A quick "lunch-haul" varies in price, but the marina will pull the boat out, go to lunch while you survey it, then come back and relaunch it. If you have the opportunity to replace the thru-hulls at the same time (or other underwater parts), they might be able to block it up for a week for a little additional cost.

Such an invaluable tool, I recommend a survey for anyone who is buying a boat. It sounds like the boat is worth the price you paid for it, even if you have to do $4,000 worth of work to make it perfect. Nice job!

Please keep us posted on your progress!

Dean
Vivant
1970 Ericson 32
Chesapeake Bay, MD
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
One of your first pain-in-the-neck projects is going to be to replace the stanchions and the lifelines that have apparently been removed from your craft. I'd start at Minney's.

The aluminum-framed windows are almost certainly leaking, but I like the stainless handrail upgrade although I would not recommend hanging fenders from them.
 

Bill Kitchens

Junior Member
E bay Auctions

Hi fellow sailors!

I'm brand-new here. I just won a 1975 Ericson 27-2 in an eBay auction for $869 with supposedly a main and foresails in "excellent" condition and an 8.5hp Toshiba outboard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171464905758?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

With this kind of auction, the buyer cannot inspect the boat until winning it. It can be rejected then if the buyer chooses. Presumably, I will meet the prior owner, who donated it to the charity, at the same time.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions for what I should especially look for on this old girl. Perhaps someone local would be kind enough to accompany me on my inspection?

I have a modest amount of sailing experience but not much experience with maintenance and inspection.

I'm in southern California. My "new" Ericson is a slip in Long Beach

I won an auction on a 74 e27
Hand to change out the head, new bulkheads and electrical. but you will enjoy getting her ready.
SV Das Odin
 

df1995

Member I
I don't know about the likelihood of a "fantastically rich person", but you never know. :rolleyes:

I'm no expert, but although chain plates need to be solid/not corroded, I would be more concerned with blisters in the hull, leaks leading to water intrusion into the deck around various fittings which could mean rotten balsa core in these areas, evidence of the boat having sunk at some point which would affect lots of things including the wiring, evidence of grounding or collision affecting structural integrity, softness/weakness at the mast step, condition of the rudder, and other things along these lines.

Even if the chain plates are corroded, it's not a huge job to replace them, so I would see other things as more critical. If you can't get someone knowledgeable to go with you, I wonder if you could hire a marine surveyor to do a cursory inspection for you for a little bit of money--ie. not a full inspection but just the critical stuff (though you might eventually need a full inspection for insurance purposes anyway).

Keep us posted!

Frank
Thanks for your kind help.

Yes, water intrusion is right at the top of my deal-breakers. So would chainplates. I'm an old guy and I intend to spend the rest of my life NOT working on my boats.

Strangely, my insurance company (Auto Club) does not require a survey or a formal inspection even. They used to come LOOK at the boat but the looker knew nothing about boats anyway. My latest policy (on a Laguna 18), they did not even bother. Of course, I only buy liability ($300,000) and the price is based on horsepower. $65
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi df1995,

Good luck with your inspection. You have gotten some good advice above. One thing I would look at is the missing forward lower shrouds. It looks like someone removed the shrouds and replaced them with a baby stay of sorts. I would check that cabintop attachment point.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
The less expensive the boat is, the more valuable a professional survey will be.

I'm a bit late to chime in and others have already made lots of good observations just based on the photo you posted. When you do go to the inspection, please take more photos and post them here as a follow up. I have owned my 1973 E-27 for 12 years and in that time I have replaced all the standing and running rigging, replaced the fuel tank, new sails, rebuilt the engine, replaced the thru hull valves, replaced the head, added a holding tank, new bushings in the rudder, replaced all the plumbing, most of the D/C electrical, bilge pumps and so on. This does not include the many upgrades I have made to my boat. This is just maintenance.

As others have noted from the photo:

• Front lower starboard shroud is missing.
• Stanchions and lifelines are missing.
• Stainless hand rails are not original (but I like them).
• There appears to be no running rigging on the traveler.
• One other observation. There appears to be a baby stay that attaches just in front of the forward hatch. I have never see that on a E-27. I do hope the boat has a fore stay at the bow.
• Are there any soft spots in the deck. These boats are balsa cored and the wood can get saturated with water and rot. You can easily walk on the deck and put pressure to see if any parts of the decks flex or seem mushy.

Things I would look for inside the boat:

• Inspect the chain plates by removing the wood panels above the salon settees as well as inside the head. You will be able to see where the chin plates are glassed in. If there is a lot of rust color in or around the fiberglass that incases the chainplates you may want to have a professional rigger inspect them. I had mine inspected twice over the last 12 years and there was some rust discoloration but my rigger said it seemed to be okay. He tapped at the glassed in plates lightly with a hammer listening for hollow or soft areas.

• Yes as stated by others here , Check those Thru Hull valves! If they are the original gate valves from 1975, they must be replaced with quality ball valves asap IMHO.
• While you have the wood panels off you should be able to look up for leaks around the Stanchions, but that’s pretty much a moot point because this boat appears to have no Stanchions.
• Check for water / fuel / oil in the bilge. The fuel and oil may also be a moot point because you say the boat has a outboard.
• Are there bilge pumps? Electrical & Manual?
• Does it have a internal fuel tank that feeds that outboard? If so and that tank is aluminum, stainless or galvanized the tank may be in need of polishing due to the accumulation of old fuel, bad fuel or gunk.
• Check the electrical. Running lights, mast head light, VHF. Fuses. How are the batteries? Does the outboard have a alternator to recharge them. Take a multi meter with you to the inspection to check the voltage. Check the water level in the batteries. Is there a A/C system, if so and you plan to use shore power that should be closely be inspected.

The less expensive the boat is, the more valuable a professional survey will be! The less you know about boats is all the more reason to have a survey done. "Never enough time to do it right, always enough time to do it over."

Once you get her dialed in the E-27's are a fun boat to own, very stable, easy to handle and can take you any where.

Good luck and Beam Winds to you df1995 :egrin:
 
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JPS27

Member III
I'm a novice at all this so take my thoughts for what they're worth...but given my recent experience with a new to me E27 I would take a hose and start from the stern and soak the durn thing while you have someone underneath looking for leaks. I bought my boat with a survey that detected no soft spots etc. A couple of cleats suggest leaks when inspecting underneath, but having had the boat for several months and sitting inside inspecting everything I now know that I need to rebed just about everything. As I've posted here already I have some hardware with rotted core around some hardware but not too deep. But tapping doesn't really detect these. At least I can't tell. So a visual inspection underneath and looking for any rust would be good. Previous owner or previous previous owner seemed to have an aversion to stainless steel.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here's a contrary opinion to all the excellent traditional advice above, from knowledgeable and experienced sailors:

Don't spend a dime you can avoid on this boat. Just sail it locally and have fun. Don't go far. Don't buy anything new or replace anything you can sail without. Sail it till it breaks, fix it, sail it again.

If you enjoy sailing, and the fixed charges that are unavoidable (slip fee, mostly), you'll likely move on soon enough to a boat that will include all your needed improvements at a quarter of the price you'll pay to do them to this boat.

The joy of a $900 boat is what it cost you. If you put $5,000 into it, that $5,000 would have bought you a boat on which somebody spent $10,000 fixing up.
 

Macgyro

Amazingly Still Afloat
Blogs Author
Wish there was a "Like" button for that last comment

Here's a contrary opinion to all the excellent traditional advice above, from knowledgeable and experienced sailors:

Don't spend a dime you can avoid on this boat. Just sail it locally and have fun. Don't go far. Don't buy anything new or replace anything you can sail without. Sail it till it breaks, fix it, sail it again.

If you enjoy sailing, and the fixed charges that are unavoidable (slip fee, mostly), you'll likely move on soon enough to a boat that will include all your needed improvements at a quarter of the price you'll pay to do them to this boat.

The joy of a $900 boat is what it cost you. If you put $5,000 into it, that $5,000 would have bought you a boat on which somebody spent $10,000 fixing up.

Excellent advice! I'm neck deep and thousands of $ into a project that I absolutely love, but the time and money would have been much better spent on sailing a newer boat that needs fewer repairs. I enjoy working on the boat however, so I'd have to say that learning how to do repairs on a $800 boat will better prepare you for when something breaks on your $80,000 boat that was in perfect condition when you bought it. Also, learning to dock in high winds with an $800 boat is much better than with a shiny one. Bottom line: you will sail less, and spend more time/money fixing an inexpensive boat, but you will learn more. Best Wishes and good luck!

Dean
Vivant
Ericson 32
#165
 

df1995

Member I
my "new" 1975 Ericson

Hi fellow sailors!

I'm brand-new here. I just won a 1975 Ericson 27-2 in an eBay auction for $869 with supposedly a main and foresails in "excellent" condition and an 8.5hp Toshiba outboard.

Ericson friends, I have take possession of my 1975 27-2 and I pretty happy. The sails are in excellent condition, the outboard runs, the head works. The stays and the running rigging acceptable.

The deck is absolutely solid, with no hollow spots at all that I could find. The bottom looks pretty foul - - the former owner stopped having it cleaned. Once it's cleaned, I can guess whether bottom paint might be needed.

As was pointed out by a helpful poster, there are no lifeline stanchions which are pretty expensive in the catalogs it turns out. I'll check at Minney's (as suggested) or I might try to salvage them from another hull.

I'm looking over slip options. I would like to be in Anaheim Bay because it's closer to me (Pomona) but cheap slips are hard to find there. I might end up in San Pedro or Wilmington.

If anyone wants to sail, I'm always looking for people to sail with - - it's hard to find sailing companions when you live inland I as do. Here's my number: nine-zero-nine-five-three-eight-one-five-two-four. Email: dr.david.null(at)gmail.com. I'm a little deaf so email is better. I can sail any day.
 

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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Ericson friends, I have take possession of my 1975 27-2 and I pretty happy. The sails are in excellent condition, the outboard runs, the head works. The stays and the running rigging acceptable.

The deck is absolutely solid, with no hollow spots at all that I could find. The bottom looks pretty foul - - the former owner stopped having it cleaned. Once it's cleaned, I can guess whether bottom paint might be needed.

As was pointed out by a helpful poster, there are no lifeline stanchions which are pretty expensive in the catalogs it turns out. I'll check at Minney's (as suggested) or I might try to salvage them from another hull.

I'm looking over slip options. I would like to be in Anaheim Bay because it's closer to me (Pomona) but cheap slips are hard to find there. I might end up in San Pedro or Wilmington.

If anyone wants to sail, I'm always looking for people to sail with - - it's hard to find sailing companions when you live inland I as do.
Last time I was there, Minney's had a whole room full of stanchions.
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Welcome aboard!

Ericson friends, I have take possession of my 1975 27-2 and I pretty happy. The sails are in excellent condition, the outboard runs, the head works. The stays and the running rigging acceptable.

The deck is absolutely solid, with no hollow spots at all that I could find. The bottom looks pretty foul - - the former owner stopped having it cleaned. Once it's cleaned, I can guess whether bottom paint might be needed.

As was pointed out by a helpful poster, there are no lifeline stanchions which are pretty expensive in the catalogs it turns out. I'll check at Minney's (as suggested) or I might try to salvage them from another hull.

I'm looking over slip options. I would like to be in Anaheim Bay because it's closer to me (Pomona) but cheap slips are hard to find there. I might end up in San Pedro or Wilmington.

If anyone wants to sail, I'm always looking for people to sail with - - it's hard to find sailing companions when you live inland I as do.

You will love it!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Consider that lifelines are not necessary on a sailboat.

Before the 1960s, few cruising boats had them.

Racing dinghies don't have them. The crew hikes out but never falls in. Why? Because without lifelines you hold on.

So, they're nice to have for lots of reasons but don't make a boat all that safer, in my opinion.
 
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df1995

Member I
lifelines

Consider that lifelines are not necessary on a sailboat.

Before the 1960s, few cruising boats had them.

Racing dinghies don't have them. The crew hikes out but never falls in. Why? Because without lifelines you hold on.

So, they're nice to have for lots of reasons but don't make a boat all that safer, in my opinion.

They seem too low to make much difference (unless there are kids aboard of course). I'm thinking of putting a toerail from the cabin to the pulpit though as an alternative.
 
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