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inspecting a 1975 Ericson 27-2 purchase

df1995

Member I
They seem too low to make much difference (unless there are kids aboard of course). I'm thinking of putting a toerail from the cabin to the pulpit though as an alternative.

After seeing lifelines on another Ericson 25-2, I have to retract this statement. Most lifelines on small boats are only about a foot high. Those I saw today were two feet, which makes them much more functional.
 

Emerald

Moderator
lifelines have saved my butt

After seeing lifelines on another Ericson 25-2, I have to retract this statement. Most lifelines on small boats are only about a foot high. Those I saw today were two feet, which makes them much more functional.

Lifelines have saved me from going overboard on more than one occasion, and these were bad events. I got caught in a line once many years ago when it was blowing like snot. Can't even begin to tell you how it all went down, but in the end, lifelines kept me on board. And then last season I was working on the main and got hit by a power boat wake just wrong with a whole bunch of other stuff going on, and I took a tumble backwards off the cabin top, and the lifelines saved my butt again. At some point, I'd vote for a cruise through Minney's shop looking to pick up some used ones (used stanchions that is- do new wire rope - it's relatively cheap - you can hand swage lifeline fittings if you're on a budget and don't want to pay a rigger).
 
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df1995

Member I
Test sail

Ericson friends,

I went on a test sail with two kindly and highly experienced sailors (both users of this board but I would not use their names without permission). I thought the sail went well, except for the massive bottom growth that affect the speed and the steering. But both of the far more experienced sailors that took me out were very unimpressed and recommended I get my money back if possible. Their opinion is that a sailboat at $740 is no bargain when it needs expensive work. Certainly this old girl needs a haulout and bottom paint (maybe blister repair) and there are no lifelines. Maybe the rigging needs checking (it was remarked that the side stays were too tight and it's missing the front sidestays (2 out of 6). So, I'm debating in my little head just what to do.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
What's the debate? They felt you should've paid $695? :)

Clean the bottom and sail it. Then throw it away. Spend no money.
 

Macgyro

Amazingly Still Afloat
Blogs Author
Carry a liferaft and enough insurance and you'll be fine

Ericson friends,

I went on a test sail with two kindly and highly experienced sailors (both users of this board but I would not use their names without permission). I thought the sail went well, except for the massive bottom growth that affect the speed and the steering. But both of the far more experienced sailors that took me out were very unimpressed and recommended I get my money back if possible. Their opinion is that a sailboat at $740 is no bargain when it needs expensive work. Certainly this old girl needs a haulout and bottom paint (maybe blister repair) and there are no lifelines. Maybe the rigging needs checking (it was remarked that the side stays were too tight and it's missing the front sidestays (2 out of 6). So, I'm debating in my little head just what to do.

The surveyor who looked at my E-32 said the same thing about my boat and I've still got mine. It doesn't sound like you expected a perfect yacht for less than one boat buck, so take their opinion with a grain of salt on the rim of your margarita glass and go have fun with it.

Two points of advice: Get the stays fixed immediately. If the attachment points are still there, it's a simple matter of getting the right length cable and connecting them back up. Otherwise, you'll need various parts, etc. There is plenty of info about how tight to have the stays, and adjusting them is simple.

#2 ask your marina's boatyard if they can mix together a can of "leftover" bottom paint you can use if they haul it out and apply it for you. Occasionally, there will be five or six cans of various colors a quarter full that they can mix together into a nice brown/grey color and they may not even charge you for it. Although, the Trinidad SR worked soooo much better than my mystery paint and probably would have prevented a second haul-out. Another option is to get a diver to clean it as necessary (4 times/year?) until you can afford the haulout.

#3 (I know) When you have the chance, look at installing lifelines. The mainsheet grabbed me and tried to throw me off the boat yesterday during an accidental jibe and I ended up pressed against the lifelines pretty hard. I don't think I would have gone over, but I was by myself, and glad they were there.

Bottom line: If you don't want to learn how to fix a boat, join a boat club or be rich, otherwise, have a great time learning all about fixing and maintaining your boat. My first sailboat had a 2x10 as a rudder. I can't imagine yours handled any worse than that one. And there's nothing like sitting on a boat at the dock sipping margaritas:cheers:.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
What's the debate? They felt you should've paid $695? :)

Clean the bottom and sail it. Then throw it away. Spend no money.
I fundamentally concur with Christian's advice here. Don't invest in trying to fix this boat up to get it in cherry condition; that's a losing proposition. You'll spend much more time, money, and effort than if you were to spend more up front to get one that someone else fixed up and/or maintained well.

The only caveat I'd add is that you *should* spend what is required (though no more than is required) to make sure the boat is safe. So definitely replace those missing lowers and don't sail the boat until you do. Getting the rigging inspected by someone knowledgeable would be a good thing also, because having the mast come down around your ears can ruin your whole day. But I wouldn't spend a dime on cosmetics nor on adding a bunch of accessories to this boat. Also, forget about the blister repair. Blisters virtually never compromise the structural integrity of the boat in any fundamental way. Repairing those would be a complete waste of time and money.

In short, use the boat as a learning platform and as a stepping stone to something more to your liking down the road, after you've gained some knowledge and experience.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Also, if you hire a diver monthly for about $30, you probably don't need an expensive haul and bottom paint.

When my boat had almost none left, it developed a scum after a month, but that's about all.

With new bottom paint, it still develops a scum after a month.

If a diver can successfully clean the hull, and you're not racing, why do we need toxic paint?
 

df1995

Member I
Conflicted.

Ericson friends,

I went on a test sail with two kindly and highly experienced sailors (both users of this board but I would not use their names without permission). I thought the sail went well, except for the massive bottom growth that affect the speed and the steering. But both of the far more experienced sailors that took me out were very unimpressed and recommended I get my money back if possible. Their opinion is that a sailboat at $740 is no bargain when it needs expensive work. Certainly this old girl needs a haulout and bottom paint (maybe blister repair) and there are no lifelines. Maybe the rigging needs checking (it was remarked that the side stays were too tight and it's missing the front sidestays (2 out of 6). So, I'm debating in my little head just what to do.

Thanks for the varied advice. I'm conflicted. I can get my $745 back but I do like the boat. Installing life-lines is really a big project though.

Also I'm having trouble finding a bottom cleaner and I would like to know what the bottom looks like. All the "big guys" I called are too busy. Any suggestions? The old girl is at Harborlight at Hotel Maya near the Queen.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hmmm. I'd take the money back if I were you. Boats are a lot of hands-on work--even brand new boats.

Regarding the bottom, put on a mask and get in the water and take a look. Ask a diver who is cleaning a bottom nearby to clean yours. It's not a job for telephone communication, and some working Spanish helps. Installing lifelines is not a big project. You can make temp lifelines by running a line from pulpits to stays. You can install stanchions and run Spectra (line) through them, which avoids turnbuckles and wire and fittings.
 

Gary Holford

Member II
Just a couple of thoughts

I bought E27 8 years ago for a lot more than $895 but regardless it was the best money I have ever spent. All systems were functional and in good order. The previous owner did say to keep in mind that it was over 30 years old and I should expect to spend $1000 a year on upgrades/repairs (besides a lot of sweat equity) to keep her safe, sound and presentable. Sage advice although it hasn't been quite that high. You should be able to rig up some stays for less than that. Learn to climb the mast, we all have. As far as the life lines go you could run the Spectra as previously mentioned or maybe go with a jackline/tether for deck work. In the meantime keep your eyes open for used stainless. I can't comment on the bottom but if there was somewhere reasonable to pull her out for a couple days I'd do it. Clean it up and paint it. Don't sweat blisters until you get some more time into her.

On the other hand from a scrap value point of view I'm guessing the outboard, sails, mast, etc have to be worth more than $1000 so you definitely got your money's worth there. If the companionway hatch is in good order I know someone who would be interested in it. Best regards.
 

Emerald

Moderator
It's a hard one, but if you keep your head about you, it might be justifiable. Pick a number of what you'd be OK to have tied up in it. Don't think of it in terms of getting it out, but what you wouldn't mind to loose. Let's say $3K. So, pick out the stuff you need to do, and put realistic prices on it - the rigging, something on the bottom, safety stuff you need, and see where it lands. If you can accept you'll never see another dime of that and are within budget, go for it. Do it right, and you can have a lot of fun, and who knows where you will land. And, of all the production boats out there, you've got decent raw material. No apologies or explanations needed to be repairing/cruising a vintage Ericson. You could do far worse.

:cheers:
 
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df1995

Member I
What to do with Ericson 27?

Thanks again for the varied advice. I'm having the bottom looked at tomorrow by a bottom cleaner. I'll add that to my decision base.
 

Don Smith

Member II
David,

You might want to look around and determine the cost of an E27 that's currently in the condition you hope to bring yours up to. My bet is that you can find a used E27 in satisfactory condition for a lot less than it's going to cost you to bring yours up to satisfactory condition.


Captain Don
Gitana E26
 
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df1995

Member I
Ericson 27 in good condition cost

David,

You might want to look around and determine the cost of an E27 that's currently in the condition you hope to bring yours up to. My bet is that you can find a used E27 in satisfactory condition for a lot less than it's going to cost you to bring yours up to satisfactory condition.


Captain Don
Gitana E26

Captain Don,

I found three for sale in southern Cal: $5,500, $5,750, $15,500.

Around the country prices range from $2,900 (RI), $11,250 (TN), $6000 (SC) $4800 (MD)

The $5,500 and $5,750 look like they're in very good shape.

I don't think it will cost $4500 to bring my old girl up to speed but I could be wrong.
 
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Guy Stevens

Moderator
Moderator
Hmmm... Stop arguing with everyone and start working... Errr but you don't want to.

df1995,

In your own posts you state the following: "So would chainplates. I'm an old guy and I intend to spend the rest of my life NOT working on my boats."
Then you state: "But both of the far more experienced sailors that took me out were very unimpressed and recommended I get my money back if possible. Their opinion is that a sailboat at $740 is no bargain when it needs expensive work."

Know this, you are in love with a boat because you think it is a great deal.... I can tell from the photo that you posted that it is not a great deal, and that it needs a lot of hard work to be safe. Several others have already commented the same in this thread, but it is like your friends telling you that your first girlfriend is ugly and married to someone else. You are not going to hear it at this point. That will make the heartache harder later on, but there is nothing that your friends here on the board can help with at this time. (Note we have all done some part of this process ourselves, some of us far more of this process than you can imagine).

This thread is getting a bit mired in the good deal bad deal argument, and you have already convinced yourself that it is a GREAT deal. Furthermore, you already own it!!! So the point is moot.

So what you might want to do instead, because you have already convinced yourself that it is YOUR boat, is start figuring out what is wrong with it that is going to potentially kill you or others. Once you know what those things are start some threads here on what you should do to fix these shortcomings. When you are done fixing just the things that are going to kill you on this boat, Then start working on the things that are going to make the boat sailable easily and with some joy by an "old guy" and post those problems to the board. Again all of your board friends that have already done all of these projects on multiple boats, will help you learn and fix those things too.

Note however that you are going to have spent far more than the $5,500 or so that it would cost for one that was not a bargain. You are also going to have spent a whole lot of time fixing and upgrading things that you could have spent sailing. However you will have learned a lot in the process... And that learning is good for old guys, it keeps us from getting dementia. http://www.alz.org/we_can_help_stay_mentally_active.asp

Welcome to the group!
Guy
:)
 

df1995

Member I
to buy or not to buy that is the question

Ericson friends,

I've decided NOT to buy the boat. It's true I thought I got a good deal but the opinions of the two board members who sailed with me on Sunday and the many responses on the board convinced me that this old girl needed more work than I was willing to do.

Thanks for all the useful input.
 

Philip

Member I
Good deal--for someone...

The "good deal" is a very personal opinion. Each person has different values as to how to "value" a "project"-- which every older boat is and a new one will soon become.

Fact-- boats are a hole in the water that no amount of money will fill up-- you have to decide how much you want to put into it.

There was some very good opinions given here. The deal breaker for you is that you don't want to spend time working on a boat ..... some people love working on boats.. some tolerate it... others don't like it at all... it is a value call for the individual. Important thing to know is the less you are willing to do the more you have to pay someone else. If you are one of the really wealthy it makes sense to pay someone else $80/hr to do something you don't want to do (you might be making $200 or more per hour doing something you like ...) I doubt it that you are in that range or you wouldn't be looking at a $1000 boat. Given that these points are valid--I would like to echo the advice to join a sailing club. The club takes care of the moorage/upkeep ...you pay to belong and sail. Could be the cost is below just the price of the monthly slip fee (very strong..in fact most likely). Take a learn to cruise/bareboat course.... and rent a bare boat in different locations with a larger boat. All together most likely less than paying for slip and upkeep.

On the other hand... tohatso engine.. used value $300....Mainsail@ $100...jib@$150....lead in keel@$1500 (2900lbs at scrap $0.54).....William's advice about making sure it was safe and just sail the heck out of it..then scrap it if need be makes sense also.

I paid $2000 for my 71 E27.... and thought I got a great deal.... some things worse than yours... some better.... still a hole in the water.... all hobbies seem to be expensive.

Just my thoughts as you go forward.


But I love it.
Going to spend tonight on the boat.

Phil
 

df1995

Member I
fixing up a bargain boat

The "good deal" is a very personal opinion. Each person has different values as to how to "value" a "project"-- which every older boat is and a new one will soon become.

Fact-- boats are a hole in the water that no amount of money will fill up-- you have to decide how much you want to put into it.

There was some very good opinions given here. The deal breaker for you is that you don't want to spend time working on a boat ..... some people love working on boats.. some tolerate it... others don't like it at all... it is a value call for the individual. Important thing to know is the less you are willing to do the more you have to pay someone else. If you are one of the really wealthy it makes sense to pay someone else $80/hr to do something you don't want to do (you might be making $200 or more per hour doing something you like ...) I doubt it that you are in that range or you wouldn't be looking at a $1000 boat. Given that these points are valid--I would like to echo the advice to join a sailing club. The club takes care of the moorage/upkeep ...you pay to belong and sail. Could be the cost is below just the price of the monthly slip fee (very strong..in fact most likely). Take a learn to cruise/bareboat course.... and rent a bare boat in different locations with a larger boat. All together most likely less than paying for slip and upkeep.

On the other hand... tohatso engine.. used value $300....Mainsail@ $100...jib@$150....lead in keel@$1500 (2900lbs at scrap $0.54).....William's advice about making sure it was safe and just sail the heck out of it..then scrap it if need be makes sense also.

I paid $2000 for my 71 E27.... and thought I got a great deal.... some things worse than yours... some better.... still a hole in the water.... all hobbies seem to be expensive.

Just my thoughts as you go forward.


But I love it.
Going to spend tonight on the boat.

Phil

I appreciate your input and you are absolutely correct that I could sail her as she is then part her out and make money on the deal. For me, that's not the right solution; I'm an old guy and don't want to spend time working on the boat or parting her out. I've got a trailer-sailer (a Windrose 18) and I can daysail on that well enough.

Your comments are greatly appreciated though. Someone younger, with time, could fix this old girl up then sell it when ready to move on.
 
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