starting battery for E34

I am looking for a good place to install a starting battery in my E34. I want to connect the two existing deep cycle batteries in parallel for more capacity in my house bank and install a separate starting battery. I am thinking of the space next to the existing batteries in the space between the stuffing box and the diesel tank.

additional battery bank.

I did the same thing until i decided I wanted even more battery space, and stepped up to 4 6v batterys and built a new box in a unused space on the cabin sole. (see my recent blog entry) I had mounted an alternate battery bank back in there behind the engine on top of the fuel tank with a complete watering system. but I moved it because of heat in the engine space, fire hazard, inaccessibility to access the battery and items behind it, and ultimately weight distribution. but as long as it is in a battery box it should work fine. don't forget the fuse.

I installed a grp 24 starting battery in the seat locker on the shelf above the water heater on my '87 E-34.

E-34 Starting battery

Unfortunately, my shelf space above the holding tank has the compressor for the refer occupying the space mentioned My start battery is in the space above the shaft log. It is tight but has short runs to the ACR and the battery switch. It is not ideal. The next time the boat is out of the water, I am adding a Vetus Bull Flex and a Norscott shaft seal. This should make the location more acceptable. It is right on centerline.

It has been suggested that the area under the refer next to the sinks behind the trash door has space for a couple of batteries. It is worth looking into.


Bob Morrison
E-34 Terra Nova

ericson 34 starting battery

I too have a refer compressor on the shelf on top of the water heater and also a second refer compressor in the space under the port settee just forward of the sinks. I could squeeze a battery box next to the compressor on top of the water tank but then there is a long run of 1/0 cables going to the battery switch, although the new battery box would be very close to the charger, but that is relatively thin wire and low current.

My present plan is to mount a battery box as Bob Morrison did just on top of the shaft log wedged against the front edge of the fuel tank and strapped to the plywood wall of the existing battery box. I already have a dripless shaft seal so accessibility is not a problem and when that seal needs service, I would remove the battery for better access. Someone's comment about heat from the engine concerns me, does anyone think that is real problem, the battery will be in a poly battery box. Access to fill the battery is not great but hey it's a boat, nothing is easy but I can see and touch it so it is not impossible with some clean tubing. Does anyone else have any concerns about that mounting place, please let me know.

I plan to mount a Blue Seas ACR on the rear plywood wall on the engine compartment, , port side. The boat had a battery combiner, the old fashioned kind with diodes that the PO bypassed, probably due to the diode voltage drop but the new version using a relay does not have that problem. I will remove the old diode box and install the new relay version.

I also plan to keep the 1-2-all battery switch, I know the new Blue Seas on-off-combine switch is a better architecture but for now I think the 1-2-all is OK as long as I dont forget to change the battery settings when needed, I am pretty good about those things. Maybe at a later date, I will change the switch. But right now I need to get one refer compressor back working and see why the AC does not work. The PO was gadget happy but I hate to have expensive gadgets not working, hence my need for more battery capacity.

Again, thanks to all who responded.

Herb Friedman, SF Bay, CA

Ai-acr

Herb,

I am currently in the process of tearing out my eliminator charging system and installing a AI-ACR system. I called the Blue Seas Technical Support Engineer, Scott McEniry about the wiring. He feels it is a huge mistake not to put in the 5511e Battery Switch. The system is designed around using both components. The 5511e is $53 on line. Keeping the old switch negates many of the benefits of the system.

He said to run the charging circuit to the engine battery not the house system as recommended on many websites. The engine battery will get undercharged. The start isolation is not required because of the smaller draw of the small diesels. I am adding it because of the perceived need to protect my E-90 plotter. Pay attention to the fuse requirements including the ground fuse.

Good Luck!

Bob Morrison

supersailor said:

Herb,

I am currently in the process of tearing out my eliminator charging system and installing a AI-ACR system. I called the Blue Seas Technical Support Engineer, Scott McEniry about the wiring. He feels it is a huge mistake not to put in the 5511e Battery Switch. The system is designed around using both components. The 5511e is $53 on line. Keeping the old switch negates many of the benefits of the system.

He said to run the charging circuit to the engine battery not the house system as recommended on many websites. The engine battery will get undercharged. The start isolation is not required because of the smaller draw of e small diesels. I am adding it because of the perceived need to protect my E-90 plotter. Pay attention to the fuse requirements including the ground fuse.

Click to expand...

Herb - I am a very young man and don't always understand the ways of the world. :0

That said, I would point out that Bob is designing his system primarily to provide isolation for his plotter. That is fine - no argument from me. Most people do not design their system with that the main concern.

Since starting the engine requires only about 1/4 of an amp-hour and the house bank requires typically 60 amp-hours or more per day most people think that it is more important to charge the house bank. I always start the M-25XP with the house bank (unless testing the start battery) and I never charge my start battery from the alternator unless I am away from shore power for a week or more. My 1-2-B switch works well for me. I don't have an ACR.

If I ever had my chart plotter or instruments drop out on starting a 23 hp engine I would look for the problem. It's not because the starter is dropping the battery voltage on a properly sized & charged battery.

I would make sure I understood the ramifications before bucking the generally accepted trend.

E-34 Battery

Oops! Some clarification might be needed here! Scott indicated that the alternator needs to be connected to the starting battery because the drain of a start from small diesel does not lower the voltage enough to match the house battery drain at anchor. Therefore, only the house batteries will charge until the charge reaches the parity level. For us sailors, that means no charge to the start battery. Several restarts means a low start battery. Because the start bank is small compared to the house bank. it fills quickly then spills over to the house bank always guaranteeing a full start battery when the alternator feed goes to it. Remember, the ACR with the 5511e separates the start and house batteries automatically and pulls only from the start battery for the starter.


The start isolation circuit is designed to stop spikes in the system the instant the starter is engaged. It is a simple circuit that, on my boat is easy to set up and guarantees no engine spikes so why not? Scott says this circuit is not needed with the small engines we have.

Bob Morrison
E-34 Terra Nova

supersailor said:

The start isolation circuit is designed to stop spikes in the system the instant the starter is engaged. It is a simple circuit that, on my boat is easy to set up and guarantees no engine spikes so why not? Scott says this circuit is not needed with the small engines we have.

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Bob - I think you answered your own question: "Scott says this circuit is not needed with the small engines we have."

I think this is a great system for you because you like it. To me, it's just that much more hair in the scupper.

I think it is an interesting idea to charge the bank that doesn't need it before you charge the one that does. It does sell switches for Blue Sea replacing existing switches which are doing their job well. It also sells combiners for them. I don't think that most sailors like us need combiners, but lots of people want them.

I am not arguing with you. I am just pointing out to others that there are other methods that some people think are at least as good or better and don't require buying as much "stuff". "Stuff" increases the likelihood of failure.

Acr

Tom,

Actually, we got way off subject here. I thought we were talking about the need to change the battery switch if you put in an ACR. For 30+ years, I used the old fashioned flip the battery switch method which works great as long as you remember to flip the switch and you don't accidentally go through the off position. That pretty well fries the alternator. Never happened to me but I know of two cases where it did. One was the Wife and the other a friend flipping the switch. My problems came from not remembering to flip it and arriving at the destination with a low battery bank. It wouldn't have been a problem if I was going to a marina. This makes the ACR look good for someone like me. Both of us are replacing an early microprocessor system so we are used to the ACR type of function. This system is very simple compared to the previous on and I have been hearing good reliability reports on it.

I have no arguments against any system that the skipper likes. I've tried several. I as trying to pass on what the engineer told me about the installation of the unit.

Bob

supersailor said:

Tom,

Actually, we got way off subject here. I thought we were talking about the need to change the battery switch if you put in an ACR. For 30+ years, I used the old fashioned flip the battery switch method which works great as long as you remember to flip the switch and you don't accidentally go through the off position. That pretty well fries the alternator. Never happened to me but I know of two cases where it did. One was the Wife and the other a friend flipping the switch. My problems came from not remembering to flip it and arriving at the destination with a low battery bank. It wouldn't have been a problem if I was going to a marina. This makes the ACR look good for someone like me. Both of us are replacing an early microprocessor system so we are used to the ACR type of function. This system is very simple compared to the previous on and I have been hearing good reliability reports on it.

I have no arguments against any system that the skipper likes. I've tried several. I as trying to pass on what the engineer told me about the installation of the unit.

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Bob - There is no reason I know of why one has to change from a 1-2-B switch if they install an ACR. One always leaves the switch in the house bank position when on the boat. With the switch the engineer sold you you lose the ability to start on the house bank if the start battery is dying. As I understand it, you have to parallel which is not good if one bank is bad.

FWIW, most people I know use the "start" battery as a "reserve" battery and start the engine with the house bank.

I just noticed, I'm not "the engineer". I must be "the other engineer".

More wood on the fire....

When I leave the boat plugged in at our slip, I put the battery switch to "All" which is where it is when I get back to the boat and start the engine. Once we get to where we can raise the sails, I stop the engine and turn the switch to (Position 1) which is our house deep cycle battery. When I want to start the engine again, I turn the selector to (Position 2) which is the starting battery (an AGM).

Battery Switch.

Tom,

What we are missing during this discussion is a good bottle of scotch to lubricate the discussion. Distance is a pain. I actually have two boats at the moment. One has an ACR with the three pole switch and the other is in the process of being rewired. I will add the combiner switch to it and try it out If it doesn't work out, I can re-install the three pole switch and I'm out $53. If I don't take my wife out to one dinner I'm in the plus if I can stand the missing skin. In the meantime, I know that my vastly over priced electronics are protected.

Bob

supersailor said:

Tom,

What we are missing during this discussion is a good bottle of scotch to lubricate the discussion. Distance is a pain.

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I'll drink to that!

Scotch is good!

With a nice cigar!

sounds good.......