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E27 fuel tank replacement

Haiku

Member II
New tank being made

I finally decided on a tank location and design, thanks to Walter and his measurements. I have also been speaking with member Scott Abbott as he is doing the same project. I decided to make a tank that is narrower and slightly taller to fit through the cockpit locker opening. I'm having an inch added to the height which should more than make up for the lost volume from making it narrower. It will still sit in the exact same location with only the forward port side tab moved in a few inches. Doing it this way means I don't have to glass in a wedge to account for the missing wedge if I was to cut the corner off.
I was quoted $500 for the new tank. Considering an off the shelf 15gal tank costs more than half that and would require significant boat modifications, I'm pretty happy. The welder is local and extremely knowledgeable. He said he welds the inside and outside of all seams and fittings to ensure no future leaks. I'm also having a drain installed for the future.

I will post pictures as soon as it's all done. Hopefully in a couple of weeks.

This is the drawing I sent to the welder with the new measurements. (The sides should all be parallel. I did the best I could free hand)
 

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Haiku

Member II
Fuel tank is installed!

I'll take some pictures later today, but the tank is installed and works great. Ended up being 15gal which I'm happy about.

I installed a Moeller fuel sender with a Faria gauge. Here's my next question- how to bond/ground the tank. I've done a lot of reading online and can't seem to find a common consensus. (Shocking, I know)

From what I understand, the ground wire from the sending unit should go directly to the main negative bus, not tied in to the negative on the engine panel as I initially did. Do I then also need to bond the tank separately directly to the negative bus? Since I don't yet have a common negative bus, can I go directly to the engine? As it stands now, my engine is the common ground, then it goes to the Blueseas DC panel. As happens with boats, my electrical system keeps growing so I will be adding a negative bus bar to my DC panel instead of using the panel itself. Can I ground the fuel sender to that negative bus or to the common bus connected directly to the block? Should the sender negative and the tank bonding wires be kept separate? I've also read the fuel filler should be grounded. My filler is plastic and it's diesel so from what I can decipher, I don't have to do this.
And the final question- what size wire for the tank bonding wire?

Thanks in advance!
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
I'll take some pictures later today, but the tank is installed and works great. Ended up being 15gal which I'm happy about.

I installed a Moeller fuel sender with a Faria gauge. Here's my next question- how to bond/ground the tank. I've done a lot of reading online and can't seem to find a common consensus. (Shocking, I know)

From what I understand, the ground wire from the sending unit should go directly to the main negative bus, not tied in to the negative on the engine panel as I initially did. Do I then also need to bond the tank separately directly to the negative bus? Since I don't yet have a common negative bus, can I go directly to the engine? As it stands now, my engine is the common ground, then it goes to the Blueseas DC panel. As happens with boats, my electrical system keeps growing so I will be adding a negative bus bar to my DC panel instead of using the panel itself. Can I ground the fuel sender to that negative bus or to the common bus connected directly to the block? Should the sender negative and the tank bonding wires be kept separate? I've also read the fuel filler should be grounded. My filler is plastic and it's diesel so from what I can decipher, I don't have to do this.
And the final question- what size wire for the tank bonding wire?

Thanks in advance!

If your Moeller tank is plastic like mine, no ground would be needed for the tank itself. I hooked up the sending unit and gage directly to the ignition as I recall. Can't remember exactly because that was a couple years ago. All I know now is that my fuel gage only works when the ignition is on. I think there were also connections for the light in the gage.
 

Haiku

Member II
Thanks for the reply, Jeff. However, my tank is aluminum.

I did connect my sender positive to my ignition and the sender does work right now, however it seems that maybe the sender ground is supposed to be connected directly to ground, rather than through the negative on the engine panel. That's done easily enough if necessary.
 

Haiku

Member II
My apologies for the lack of pictures.

I've been using the boat far too much to take pictures but I will get around to it soon.
I'm very happy with the finished product. I was initially having some issues with air in the system which I hadn't had before the install. I did a couple of things to solve this. First was to lengthen and loop the return line. Because the tank is sloped forward and the return line fitting is at the front, when the tank has any more than about 12gals or so, there is fuel at the fitting. I thought this may have been causing some issues so I turned the fitting 180 degrees so it faces away from the engine and then looped the return line up and then back down to the engine so the top of the loop is above the fuel level.
Second, (and this was a suggestion by the welder who owns a Nordhavn 40 with about 6 different filters for his twin 450gal tanks!), I put shut off valves on either side of the Racor primary filter. This accomplishes a couple of things. It allows a much less messy filter change. I simply shut off the fuel at the tank, and both at the filter. No fuel comes pouring out when the filter is unscrewed. It also prevents air from entering the system. I also put a squeeze bulb inline in the fuel line after the tank.

Now, the engine runs better than it ever has since I installed it. Fires up first time every time, which it most certainly did not before.

I was out on a trip last week that involved a lot of motoring. 25 hours to be exact. I started with a full tank and just refilled it yesterday. 25 hours burned 10.5gals, or 40 litres. That equals about 0.4gals/hour, or about 1.6L/hour. Not too bad.

I also installed a fuel gauge, water temp and oil pressure as well as an hour meter.


As a side note, if anyone wants to install an oil pressure sender in a Yanmar 2GMF and probably other Yanmar's as well, there's a very simple way of doing it.
I did a lot of online searching before I started. Most people suggested installing a tee so that the original sender could remain. This would be relatively simple were it not for the fact that Yanmar's are Japanese and thus they are metric. It's also a very tight fit to not interfere with the alternator belt. It took me several days and many phone calls to source a male British pipe thread 1/8 tee with a female NPT for the non metric new sender. I ordered it in two parts. A 1/8 male BPT tee, and an NPT adapter. I received the parts only to realize they sent the wrong thing. Both wrong in fact. Then I was told that they'd actually made a mistake and aren't able to ship to Canadians and therefore couldn't send the correct parts. I went down to the boat annoyed. Then I started actually looking at the engine. Turns out, directly under the oil filter and original oil pressure sender, there was a small plug. I removed the plug with an Alan key and low and behold, it was 1/8". Luckily the adapter I was sent incorrectly was perfect. It threaded directly in, and then the new NPT sender threaded into it. I wired it up, fired up the engine and it works perfectly. The original sender sticks out from the engine, the new one hangs down. Out of the way and no tees necessary.
 

Haiku

Member II
Pictures

A few pictures of the installation.
 

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Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
A few pictures of the installation.

Congratulations! Nice job. Bet that was fun. Wish I had that 2GM10 instead of my little 1GM10. New Racor! Access to that Racor looks like a bit of a pain. Mine is located just to the starboard side of my engine. Enjoy your free flowing fuel! :egrin:
 

Haiku

Member II
Thanks Jeff. Looking at the pictures, and then my actual engine, I can't for the life of me remember why I didn't put the Racor on the port side above the alternator. I'm sure I had some reason for it, but it doesn't make sense now.
I'm planning on pulling the engine in the winter to rebuild. I'll at least be doing the valves. While the engine is out, I'll move the racor to the front. It's actually very easy to do now. Just longer fuel lines. Maybe when I'm bored someday I'll just do it.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Fuel tank ideas - E323

I last filled my 22gal tank in the fall of 2016. I wrestle with keeping it full (and mixing old fuel with new) to prevent moisture, and just trying to use up the original fuel (1/3 of which came with the boat from the PO--I have no idea how old it is).

I'm considering pumping the tank dry to have it removed and cleaned. I'd probably run out of a 5 gal plastic tank in the interim just so the boat is usable.

Makes me think though, that a five gal tank would suit my typical needs much better than a 22gal tank.

Anyone ever build a second "weekend/daysail" tank as a substitute to the 22gal cruising tank? Any idea what the costs would be?

Other than extending the fill and vent lines, it could drop right in in place of the old tank (which I would store in the shed).
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Why take the tank out if it isn;t leaking or has other catastrophic issues?

To empty it of old diesel all you need is a diesel fuel transfer pump and some 5-gallon fuel jugs (that can become deck jugs for any long cruise). Yes, there are other ways to extract the old fuel, including siphon, but if doing it again Iʻd buy the appropriate pump.

To clean it, install inspection ports if you have none presently. Easy enough DIY, and probably not all that expensive by a boat mechanic.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Fuel-Tank-Inspection-Ports-Five-Minute-Video
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Why take the tank out if it isn;t leaking or has other catastrophic issues?

It looks like it would be easy to remove. No? Just two aluminum straps holding it in the quarter berth area. Seems it would be a lot easier to cut ports while in the garage rather than hunched over in the q-berth. Also much easier to get all the shavings and cuttings out if the tank is removed. And if I pay someone to do it, it has to be removed and taken to a shop in Tacoma.

Seems the easier way to do it, unless it really is difficult to get that tank out.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
..."weekend/daysail" tank as a substitute to the 22gal cruising tank?

A friend who is a pilot muses that the three most useless things to a pilot are "altitude above me, runway behind me, and fuel on the ground."

I'm going to guess there's a corollary to that last one for sailors. Other than extreme-weight-reduction programs on racing boats, I can't remember there ever being a time when I thought "gosh, I wish I had less fuel aboard."

...but I can think of many times I wished I'd had more....

$.02
Bruce
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
....the three most useless things to a pilot are "altitude above me, runway behind me, and fuel on the ground."

Years of wisdom involved in the generation of that quote, of course.

But, at a running three-year average of 5-7 gallons consumption per year, a 22-gallon tank just seems to introduce a lot of potential problems with moisture and growth in the fuel.

Of course, the real solution would be to take the boat out 2-3 times as often.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ken,

Well, you still have to get the diesel out and maneuver the thing out the companionway and home. Do measure to make sure it fits.

My 32-3 tank had one inspection port from the factory--which made cleaning possible in place. I had to add inspection ports to the E38 tank.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
.... take the boat out 2-3 times as often.

ding-ding-ding! Winner, chicken dinner! (laughing)

I have "fill the tank" as part of my annual pseudo-winterizing routine, mostly because the urban legend about condensation has been around forever.

Maine Sail did an experiment (albeit with an empty tank), and it kinda-sort debunks the legend.

https://pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

Given that we have systems for dealing with water in the fuel system, I'm not sure that going through contortions to manage fuel level to minimize (potential) condensation really accomplishes much. Water in the fuel becomes water in the Racor bowl, either way.

I'd be more concerned about old (or, in the case of long-ago Baja deliveries) *bad* fuel. The fuel we strained through cheesecloth to get the "blobs" out of it before it went into the tank. Ugh.

I do think there's value in periodically draining the tank, cleaning it, and refilling it with good/clean/fresh fuel. But "draining it" doesn't have to mean pumping it out into jugs.

I put 24 gallons in the tank last year (two separate top-ups) after visiting Port Townsend, Sidney, Genoa Bay, going around North Pender, into Rosario, down the outside of Lopez, back into Port Townsend and home, plus a few other trips to Oak Harbor, Port Ludlow, Kingston, Langley, etc. In hindsight I would have preferred more of that time on the water be sailing, and less motoring, but, still, this is a fine way to cycle through fuel....

Bruce
 

sgwright67

Member III
Diesel heater?

Perhaps you could install a diesel heater, or even a Wallas diesel stove/heater to use up some of that excess fuel, and make things more comfortable for winter sailing? The conditions have been great this past week for sailing around here, and if I had a boat, I'd certainly be using it, and the heater when not sailing... :)
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Hmm... Maybe the solution is TWO tanks. A day-sailing “day tank” and a bigger cruising tank that need not be filled until needed.

BTW: Mainesail didn’t actually do that experiment correctly. Specifically, he didn’t put any diesel in the tank, which is what really drives the process. Condensation in tanks is a real thing, I can assure you. Even with the best of intentions, there is always something around the farm that gets left all winter with a quarter-tank. Also works in the oil-trap air filters of old tractors.
 

gulfcoaster

Member III
Original Manufacturer Of Tank

This may help. The original manufacturer for the Ericson 32 I owned was Vic Berry Sheet Metal. Their address a few years ago was 760 Newton Way, Costa Mesa, Ca. 92627. Tel. (949) 548-3613.
 

bgary

Advanced Beginner
Blogs Author
BTW: Mainesail didn’t actually do that experiment correctly. Specifically, he didn’t put any diesel in the tank,

Agreed, hence the "kinda sorta" in my comment.

There's an interesting discussion - with no clear conclusion - on Sailnet, here: https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gene...44341-myth-condensation-fuel-tanks-print.html

Another one here on YBW, which seems to center on the premise that diesel fuel absorbs and holds water in suspension when temperatures drop: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?464230-Condensation-in-fuel-tank&

...and, a surprising civil (for that group) discussion on Sailing Anarchy, here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/in...-diesel-tanks-full-stops-condensation-t-or-f/

Bottom line, I don't see a huge downside to keeping my tank full in the winter, and trusting that my Racor will separate out the water that is (likely) impossible to truly keep out of the system.

And the upsides are, I like knowing I have a full tank of fuel whenever I head off on a jaunt, and those jaunts tend to do a nice job of cycling through the fuel.

Bruce
 
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