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E27 fuel tank replacement

Haiku

Member II
I've searched this topic on the site but can't seem to find an answer. So here goes.
I have an 1978 E27 with wheel steering. I've converted from gas to diesel. I removed the original 15gal aluminum tank that was in the port quarter. I had to cut it out to get it through the locker opening. Now I need to replace it.
I've seen most people have replaced it with a Moeller 12gal tank and put it between the engine and rudder stock. It doesn't look like that will work for mine. I've considered getting a flexible tank. 14.5gal from Nauta. What I've also considered is getting a tank made. Basically the same shape as the original but slightly smaller to fit through the cockpit locker opening. Unfortunately the boat yard threw out my old, cut up tank last year so I no longer have the shape. I think I can relatively easily make a mockup out of cardboard.

Has anyone replaced a tank with wheel steering? Any help would be really appreciated. I've been avoiding this project for over a year now.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Having had a custom replacement diesel tank built (http://coastline-tanks.com/ ), I would strongly advise that you not use cardboard for that mock-up.
It's liable to flex and make the installation look deceptively easy. You then might find out that the truly rigid aluminum tank will not *quite* fit. Yikes.

I have installed both a new custom diesel tank and two drinking water tanks in our boat over the years. In each case I used a wood frame of 1 X 2 and sides of quarter inch ply or doorskins. Screws and hot glue were used to fab up the parts. It takes patience... but no great skill, or I could not have done it! :)

The resulting rigid mock-ups were then measured and diagramed for the tank fabricators.

You'll want to think out just exactly where the new inlet, vent, and outlet(s) go, and their size 7 thread.

There are pix on this site of our fuel tank project.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6303-Diesel-Tank-replacement&referrerid=28

Keep us posted and best of luck.
:egrin:

Loren
 
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Haiku

Member II
Thanks for the advice, Loren. I read your post on the tank replacement in your boat a while back. Looks great.

I think I've decided to have a tank made and put it in the lazarette. The 14gal Moeller tank is almost perfect, but unfortunately it's about half an inch too wide to fit through the opening. I figure I can get about a 16gak tank in there with lots of room to spare. There's a plastic tank shop relatively close to me that does custom tanks. I may change my mind once I get a price.

The benefit of putting the tank back there is access. I wouldn't even need a deck fill. Just open the lazarette and fill the tank directly. I can also design it so that it can be removed relatively easily for cleaning or inspection. At 16gal it would only weigh about 120lbs when full which will actually help to counter the weight of the anchor and rode up front.

Anybody else done this or think of any reasons why I shouldn't?
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'd look at USCG requirements for fill pipes on fuel tanks. I have a hunch a deck fill is required to prevent accidental spills into the bilge.
 

Haiku

Member II
That does make sense. Thanks Christian. There already is a deck fill on the port quarter which would work easily if the tank was in the lazarette so no problem there.
I think I'm going to have to do it. Seems to make the most sense to put it in there.
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
Original location

I'd opt for getting a tank made to fit through the lazerette and mounting it where the original tank was located. With the limited storage space on the 27's I can't see the wisdom of giving the lazeratte up to hold a fuel tank. How often do you think you it will be necessary for you to inspect the tank. The original one was in there for 36 years. Al Frakes Port Kent, NY
 
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Haiku

Member II
After speaking with a few local fabricators today, I think I've decided to go with an aluminum tank in the original location. The local welder, where I keep my boat and who made my propane tank bracket, told me that there isn't any difference in price to make a rectangular tank versus a wedge shaped tank. As long as I make an accurate mockup.
I didn't want to lose the storage space in the lazarette, but at the same time, I thought it would be an easier and cheaper way to do it. Putting the tank in the original location, the port quarter, will allow me to simply reuse the fibreglass tabs that held the original tank in place and to use otherwise useless space. I will hopefully be able to make the tank at least 14gals, if not more. 14gal with a 5gal jerry can for longer trips will keep me going for a few hundred miles on power alone.

I will post pictures once things progress.
 

Haiku

Member II
Tank measurements?

I was hoping someone out there in the the friendly Ericson community could measure a tank for me? I made the mistake of throwing out my original tank that fit under the port quarter. I didn't think I would have any use for it. That was a mistake.
I'm trying to make a mockup for the new tank, which will go in the same place. However, there are so many different angles to contend with, not to mention how inaccessible it is.
I was hoping someone had a tank they'd removed so it would be easy to measure up. It was a 15gal tank. My boat is a 1978 E27 with wheel steering.
Otherwise, I'll just have to get creative.

Thanks!
 

jstaff

Member I
When I replaced the fuel tank in my E27 it was already its second tank. It was aluminum and the bottom was wasted out of it. I decided to go with a smaller plastic tank that has suited us just fine.

I'm curious, what is the price difference between aluminum and stainless steel?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
When I replaced the fuel tank in my E27 it was already its second tank. It was aluminum and the bottom was wasted out of it. I decided to go with a smaller plastic tank that has suited us just fine.

I'm curious, what is the price difference between aluminum and stainless steel?

There might some price difference, one way or the other, but for diesel you would want 5000 series aluminum, AFAIK.
Quite a bit less weight, too.

Loren
 

Haiku

Member II
I'm not sure what the price difference would be. I'll be getting aluminum, though.

This has become a very frustrating job. There are far too many angles and far too many things in the way.
I'm beginning to worry the tank will be too small. The original tank was 16" at the widest corner. The locker opening is only 12". I guess I can still try to build a mockup, and then attempt to do the math to figure out what the approximate volume will be. I'd like to have at least 13gal, preferably more. The original tank was 15gal.

I do have to remind myself that I can easily carry a 5gal jerry can with me for longer trips if necessary. Sometimes it can be far too easy to make a simple job far more complicated than it needs to be... I'm trying not to be like my father who's plumbing system on his C&C 41 requires a full day course before using it...

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know how to rotate photos on this site? I added some photos to an album and half of them are sideways. Maybe it's obvious on a computer. I'm using an iPad.
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Tank material.

Loren, I pose this question to stimulate further discussion on a topic that I'm not very well informed on. Come to think of it, that pretty much rules out almost everything I post about here, but then that's another topic. I've been told that the stainless steel material is not worrisome when fabricating a diesel tank, but it's the weldments the material of which seems to be different than stainless stew that diesel fuel can/will compromise in some manner to the extent that leaks can form??? What say thee on and all? Cheers, Glyn
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm not sure what the price difference would be. I'll be getting aluminum, though.

This has become a very frustrating job. There are far too many angles and far too many things in the way.
I'm beginning to worry the tank will be too small. The original tank was 16" at the widest corner. The locker opening is only 12". I guess I can still try to build a mockup, and then attempt to do the math to figure out what the approximate volume will be. I'd like to have at least 13gal, preferably more. The original tank was 15gal.

I do have to remind myself that I can easily carry a 5gal jerry can with me for longer trips if necessary. Sometimes it can be far too easy to make a simple job far more complicated than it needs to be... I'm trying not to be like my father who's plumbing system on his C&C 41 requires a full day course before using it...

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know how to rotate photos on this site? I added some photos to an album and half of them are sideways. Maybe it's obvious on a computer. I'm using an iPad.

I do not (yet) have an iPad, but do my computing on an iMac. I have found that the orientation I see on the screen is what shows up when I u/l a photo to this site. I wonder if there's some interaction going on (at the instant you do you do a "save as") on the tablet due to it's OS constantly waiting to orient your picture "right side up" no matter which way you turn the iPad?
That is only a guess, though. Hopefully some other tablet users can log in with real info.

Loren
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Loren, I pose this question to stimulate further discussion on a topic that I'm not very well informed on. Come to think of it, that pretty much rules out almost everything I post about here, but then that's another topic. I've been told that the stainless steel material is not worrisome when fabricating a diesel tank, but it's the weldments the material of which seems to be different than stainless stew that diesel fuel can/will compromise in some manner to the extent that leaks can form??? What say thee on and all? Cheers, Glyn

I have also been told by several fabricators that the welds in the SS are the weak point. Melting the metal changes the alloy makeup.

Loren
 

Haiku

Member II
Thanks for all the input.

Putting the tank under the cabin sole would be ideal for many reason. However, I'm not too keen on cutting into it at this point.

I gave up on trying to make a mockup when I was at the boat last week. Hanging down in the cockpit locker while trying to measure all sorts if different angles became too frustrating. I may try again when I go back. I may also just physically get in there and try to measure. I know I can fit because I spent many hours in there last year redoing the exhaust system, but being 6'5", I suffered for a while afterwards.

Im starting to lean back towards putting a tank in the lazarette and sacrificing the space. I think I can get a larger tank in there and it would be a far easier install.

The other option is to make a tank for the port quarter that doesn't follow the slope of the hull aft. I could make it so that the top of the tank is level from side to side, but it would slope up towards aft, if that makes sense. So it would be wedge shaped in only one direction instead of two. This would allow significantly more volume while still fitting through the cockpit opening.
Is there any reason the top should be level?
 

Haiku

Member II
Photo orientation

I discovered that if I edit, rotate 90, save, then edit and rotate to the original orientation on my iPad in the photo app, then upload to the site, it works. Not sure why this is the case, but if anyone else was having this problem, that's the simple fix.
 

Walter Pearson

Member III
Here are some dimensions (in inches) from an old CAD file. The fuel gauge sensor on my E27 did not give an accurate level in such a tank shape, so I used the CAD to get some volumes at various sensor heights. It was a long time ago and I'm not going to stand by the accuracy, but it may give you some direction.E27 Fuel Tank Dims rev2.jpg
 
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Haiku

Member II
Thanks so much, Walter!

That certainly looks like the tank that was in there. The width of the locker is the limiting measurement. It's 12" wide. I think I can use these measurements to make a tank that has the same shape to fit the hull but will still fit through the locker opening. Hopefully I can still get about 13gal out of it.

Thanks again!

Dylan
 

Walter Pearson

Member III
I noticed the dimension for the lower forward edge was incorrect. I changed it to the 19.0 inch value. I also neglected to turn it, but I think you can get the picture. Good luck.
 
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