E23-2 rudder refinishing... Epifanes/Paint/Anti-fouling

Hi all,

I have sanded down the old (original?) finish of my rudder and I'm working on the fifth coat of Epifanes. I'm going for the suggested eight to ten coats of Epifanes. Yes, I cut 50/50, then 25/75, and will end up at about 10/90 percent with their thinner.

It is going well, but, I am new to sailing this big of a boat and I'm wondering if I could get some suggestions as far as additional rudder finishing. Do you Anti-foul paint below the water line? Do you paint at all? Is eight or ten coats of Epifanes enough to survive being in Lake Michigan for a season?

Do you remove your rudder if you will not be sailing for a few days/weeks? Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Tim

rudder painting

I just repaired a rudder - ground down to glass, repaired with glass, epoxy, then epoxy and filler, and then bottom paint right on that.... No use adding paints where all you will need is bottom paint under the water line. If you ground down to glass, then I would do a barrier coat of epoxy to Interlux 2000 etc., and the bottom paint.

Rudder finish

Schrewsburyduo said:

I just repaired a rudder - ground down to glass, repaired with glass, epoxy, then epoxy and filler, and then bottom paint right on that.... No use adding paints where all you will need is bottom paint under the water line. If you ground down to glass, then I would do a barrier coat of epoxy to Interlux 2000 etc., and the bottom paint.

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I guess I wasn't clear... this is a solid teak rudder. No fiberglass. It had spar varnish throughout with anti-fouling paint over that below the water level. Everything that I read says not to add fiberglass to a wood rudder (yes, I am aware that many still do it). Wondering if the addition of anti-foul paint is necessary on Lake Michigan. Also wondering if anyone removes their rudder when not being used for several days/weeks.

I have seen several smaller boats from the 70's that used mahogany rudders, so teak is not a surprise. The early C&C 25 had a wood rudder blade, for instance.

Perhaps you could do like the J-24 guys do and remove it when not using the boat, and lay it down in the cockpit?
I know that those wood rudders do take more maintenance.

Loren

Loren Beach said:

I have seen several smaller boats from the 70's that used mahogany rudders, so teak is not a surprise. The early C&C 25 had a wood rudder blade, for instance.

Perhaps you could do like the J-24 guys do and remove it when not using the boat, and lay it down in the cockpit?
I know that those wood rudders do take more maintenance.

Loren

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Thanks for the reply Loren. I wrote that it was solid teak, but, it is actually Mahogany according to original specs. I beleive it is original.

It will be cumbersome to remove, but, I think it is doable. I don't know how well Epifanes will seal the wood. I just think it will be a good precaution to remove the rudder whenever I am not going to be on the boat for a few days. Was wondering if anyone has used Epifanes and left it in the water for a season without effecting the wood. Epifanes is supposed to be some awesome stuff. We'll see how awesome this summer. Considering the condition it was in, with some varnish missing (age) and the usual lamination cracks, I was surprised how good the rudder looked after 37 years.

I've never seen mahogany varnished for use below the waterline on boats that remain in the water. Dinghies and trailerable boats, sure.

Why not bottom paint? Varnish is a decorative finish, right? How clear is your water, anyway

Christian Williams said:

I've never seen mahogany varnished for use below the waterline on boats that remain in the water. Dinghies and trailerable boats, sure.

Why not bottom paint? Varnish is a decorative finish, right? How clear is your water, anyway

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Hi Christian,

It is trailerable, though I will likely take it on its last road trip sometime in May to its permanent home in Oconto, WI. That is what I was wondering... about whether Epifhanes would stand up to a continuous soak. This is all new to me, so, any and all suggestions are appreciated. I guess I will bottom paint it after I finish with the spar varnishing. Does that seal the wood from water penetration? Green Bay (Lake Michigan) is fairly clean and clear, except maybe in the marina where it is more stagnant. I am aware that locals use the V17 bottom paint regularly. I don't know if I will paint this spring or wait a year. The bottom is in good condition other than having had some green algae dried on it four or five years ago when it was last in the water. My thoughts is to pull up to a beach every now and then on a hot day (yeah, anything over 75 is hot) and sponge the hull off.

Suggest using whatever bottom paint the locals use, and a paint designed for use on trailered boats.

You could varnish the above-water parts of the rudder, would probably look great.

I'll probably get blasted for this, but here goes. The Epiphanes is no difference than any other varnish. Varnish is varnish. It's nothing new, Ancient Egyptians used to use it, and it has changed little since. Of course there are more 'UV inhibitors' in it, but again, it's varnish.
I realize this is just about as contentious as arguing motor oils and bottom paints, and yes, everybody has their 'poison of choice'. I kind of like a competitor's brand, but it is all in what you are used to. Put tape over the labels, and take the Pepsi challenge. Varnish.....(not cetol, it is not varnish, it's paint).

As far as under the waterline, it will probably work for awhile. Varnish is made to keep water out of your wood, (amongst other things), and will do so well. However.......one scratch, a ding, dent, whatever, will corrupt it. Just a tiny pinhole, or a holiday, minor transgressions will let the water under your beautiful varnish. I don't have to go on here, you know what happens. 99+ percent of every boat I look at seems to suffer this. Even on the top sides and decks. I mean, it is tough to maintain this witches brew OUT of the water; under it? So, a few days probably won't hurt it, but I wouldn't leave it in the water any more than I had too. Brightworks is my game, bottoms are others claim to fame. Bravo on you for cutting those first coats down like that! It may have a chance. People that do not do this evidently want to do it all over again soon.

Primer

Tim, I used Flexdel Aquagaurd 181 Primer, Then Unipoxy as with the rest of the hull.May be time to invest on a sander to remove the varnish.Bob