E-34 Leaking Windows
- Thread starter edokarura
- Start date
Is the leak in the gasket holding the glass, or the bedding of the frame in the fiberglass? Is the wood around the frame soggy or rotten?
Window leak idea
Mine were leaking when I bought the boat, and my first reaction was to re-bed with silicone. but..... they still leaked. Isn't that always how the story begins? anyhow, to be quick about it, the leak was actually coming from the seam in the aluminum exterior frame. right where the ends butted together. It was a strange leak though. It only seemed to leak part of the time. One weekend it would pour three inches in a night and no leak. another weekend it would rain for thirty seconds and I'd get a soaked settee. I finally settled on the theory that when it was cold and raining, the aluminum frame would shrink just enough to open up and funnel the rainwater in through the mystery hole. Neither pouring buckets of water, nor running hose would replicate the leak. but when the temperature got cold, especially hail and rain. then it would leak every time. I fixed the leak by prying the window frame part way out and applying some silicone to the window frame butt-seam, inside and out and it has been dry as a bone ever since. in retrospect I could have used something more tenacious than silicone, but its still working two years later so I guess I'll leave it alone for now. I don't know if you have the same style window as me, but it might be worth a look.
Maybe the window frame should have been welded from the factory.....
Mine were leaking when I bought the boat, and my first reaction was to re-bed with silicone. but..... they still leaked. Isn't that always how the story begins? anyhow, to be quick about it, the leak was actually coming from the seam in the aluminum exterior frame. right where the ends butted together. It was a strange leak though. It only seemed to leak part of the time. One weekend it would pour three inches in a night and no leak. another weekend it would rain for thirty seconds and I'd get a soaked settee. I finally settled on the theory that when it was cold and raining, the aluminum frame would shrink just enough to open up and funnel the rainwater in through the mystery hole. Neither pouring buckets of water, nor running hose would replicate the leak. but when the temperature got cold, especially hail and rain. then it would leak every time. I fixed the leak by prying the window frame part way out and applying some silicone to the window frame butt-seam, inside and out and it has been dry as a bone ever since. in retrospect I could have used something more tenacious than silicone, but its still working two years later so I guess I'll leave it alone for now. I don't know if you have the same style window as me, but it might be worth a look.
Maybe the window frame should have been welded from the factory.....
A note on sealants: the right one is rarely at hand, and they're all expensive, and each has specific properties. It's a big topic.
Here's one of a million articles: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/April/how-to-pick-the-right-sealant.asp
Personally I avoid silicone on boats--it doesn't work, and it leaves an invisible residue.
Here's one of a million articles: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/April/how-to-pick-the-right-sealant.asp
Personally I avoid silicone on boats--it doesn't work, and it leaves an invisible residue.
Rick R.
Contributing Partner
Windows
You're lucky that the wood around the window is not rotting. I just finished installing all new fixed ports and replaced some wood around the starboard port on our boat and it wasn't cheap. Hopefully you'll be able to rebed and that will fix the problem.
Tried butyl tape but it did not seal. Ended up using Lifecaulk from West Marine.
You're lucky that the wood around the window is not rotting. I just finished installing all new fixed ports and replaced some wood around the starboard port on our boat and it wasn't cheap. Hopefully you'll be able to rebed and that will fix the problem.
Tried butyl tape but it did not seal. Ended up using Lifecaulk from West Marine.
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
I didn't have silicone sealant on mine, but I rebedded one of mine using LOTS of 3M 4000UV. Ericson built boats have grossly over sized cutouts so you have to be sure that all of the wood is sealed. PS built boats may not have that problem. You will have to get rid of all of the sealant on the frame and the boat. I can't give you any advice on that, but it is very important. Nothing will stick to the silicone residue.
It looks like my old portlights were sealed with silicone. If I read that article correctly, NOTHING I use, not even silicone, will adhere to that surface again.
Surely this ain't so. Surely I could either use silicone again or remove the residue with some solvent (xylene?) or some sanding.
Surely???
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Google Yacht and you will find a personal yacht is 23' and over. When people ask if my E 29 is a yacht, I ask, do you make over $10K a year? If they answer yes I say" it is a boat".
I think there's some Confucian saying about "To know a thing's proper name is to know that thing". The boating equivalent for me has been, "To have to fix a thing is to know it's proper name." Since I'd never had to fix them until now those things that let light into my boat were "venster":nerd:
In more serious matters, "silicone remover" is just going to be acetone - xylene? toluene? MEK? MEK Substitute - marketed under the name "silicone remover", right? Which one?
(Oh, and I do appreciate the patience and forbearance from everyone. Makes life as a neophyte boat mechanic much easier.)
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Captain Williams,
VERY helpful article. Thanks a bunch!
Was wondering, why did you use butyl to seal the opening ports but Life Calk to seal the fixed ones? I'm sealing fixed ones and have got both on hand. I'd prefer to use butyl because it's a fraction of the cost of Life Calk and seems easier to use.
Also, you and others have mentioned that the holes for ports are always over-sized. Was wondering what you would think of filing the edges in a bit with epoxy putty to make the fit more snug? I'm thinking that it might be stronger and thus safer in the event that port ever got hit with a big wave; that is, it would be less likely stove in.
Your input would be greatly appreciated, as always!
Ed
'91 E-34
"Kinnaree"
Tom Metzger
Sustaining Partner
I was advised against using epoxy to build up the cutout because it was to rigid and would break up as the boat flexed.
Ahhhhh….Interesting. Hadn't thought of that. Could you use something else? Polyester resin, perhaps?
Ericson cut the portlight openings with an axe (meaning not very precisely), but as long as there is enough material to provide a good mechanical connection between the portlight flanges, no worries.
In my opinion, Butyl is very handy but not for every job. I found Life Caulk much easier and natural and traditional to use for the big lights. It's easier, faster and fills gaps naturally (although it's not a certified gap-filler).
I have butyl all over my boat, mostly on small jobs like the hinges of cockpit locker lids or rebedded fittings. It's all still oozing. Yeah, Maine Sail instructs to tighten the fitting gradually, over several days, so most of the butyl will find its way into the right places, instead of just coming out the sides. However, in the real world, that is a tall order for every single small rebedding job you encounter.
So, butyl is easy and fast and cheap and you don't have to use a whole tube or break into a $25 caulking gun cartridge. But two weeks later, and two months later, you may be peeling off excess.
On big jobs I personally remain a caulking dude.
In my opinion, Butyl is very handy but not for every job. I found Life Caulk much easier and natural and traditional to use for the big lights. It's easier, faster and fills gaps naturally (although it's not a certified gap-filler).
I have butyl all over my boat, mostly on small jobs like the hinges of cockpit locker lids or rebedded fittings. It's all still oozing. Yeah, Maine Sail instructs to tighten the fitting gradually, over several days, so most of the butyl will find its way into the right places, instead of just coming out the sides. However, in the real world, that is a tall order for every single small rebedding job you encounter.
So, butyl is easy and fast and cheap and you don't have to use a whole tube or break into a $25 caulking gun cartridge. But two weeks later, and two months later, you may be peeling off excess.
On big jobs I personally remain a caulking dude.
Rick R.
Contributing Partner
Michael Edwards
Member II
Thank you Christian,
I've been waiting for the weather to warm up to tackle the same projecton on our E-32. Our veneer is rough under the ports. The white paint looks really nice. Did you bleach before varnishing?
Regards,
Michael
I've been waiting for the weather to warm up to tackle the same projecton on our E-32. Our veneer is rough under the ports. The white paint looks really nice. Did you bleach before varnishing?
Regards,
Michael
Right, rough veneer suggests a leak to fix before refinishing. To paint it with Interlux primer and Brightside, you just prep till perfectly flat and 400-grit smooth.
I don't think I've tried bleaching veneer. Being so thin it doesn't like much sanding or filling, and the chance of getting uniform color seems low.
The thing about the interior cabin house teak is that, in many boats, the stock slide curtains cover a good deal of it anyhow, and there may be imaginative cover-ups for small discolored areas. Decal? Ring of decorative paint? Miniature corkboard for pushpin notes? Canvas edge treatment?
But the leaks have to stop first, and that usually means re-bedding.
I don't think I've tried bleaching veneer. Being so thin it doesn't like much sanding or filling, and the chance of getting uniform color seems low.
The thing about the interior cabin house teak is that, in many boats, the stock slide curtains cover a good deal of it anyhow, and there may be imaginative cover-ups for small discolored areas. Decal? Ring of decorative paint? Miniature corkboard for pushpin notes? Canvas edge treatment?
But the leaks have to stop first, and that usually means re-bedding.
FWIW...
We have used Te-Ka A and B for cleaning/bleaching all of the interior teak veneer, including the cabin sides where the ports are. We had no rot, but there was some staining from old rain leaks that the PO had ignored.
Loren
We have used Te-Ka A and B for cleaning/bleaching all of the interior teak veneer, including the cabin sides where the ports are. We had no rot, but there was some staining from old rain leaks that the PO had ignored.
Loren