AIS on the Chartplotter

Short Leash on the RAM

To D and DM.

When installing your new Std. Hor. RAM be sure you place it where it is very close to your mouth when you are using it. The one I have has very little cord stretch and is awkward for me to use while steering the boat. I placed the plug on the port side wall in front to the aft lazzerete (sp?) just off to my lower left as am seated behind the wheel. The mike clips on the port interior side where it works well as a speaker. I am going to have to move it closer. Maybe even on the pedestal. It's not impossible to use just awkward in it's current configuration. A word to the wise. I don't think SH makes a short extension of the actual mike wire.

Larry Lee

Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA

A note on "Attractiveness"

Lawrence B. Lee said:

To D and DM.

When installing your new Std. Hor. RAM be sure you place it where it is very close to your mouth when you are using it. The one I have has very little cord stretch and is awkward for me to use while steering the boat. I placed the plug on the port side wall in front to the aft lazzerete (sp?) just off to my lower left as am seated behind the wheel. The mike clips on the port interior side where it works well as a speaker. I am going to have to move it closer. Maybe even on the pedestal. It's not impossible to use just awkward in it's current configuration. A word to the wise. I don't think SH makes a short extension of the actual mike wire.

Larry Lee

Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA

Click to expand...

Normally, being "attractive" is an OK thing except --- when it's not.
Regarding a move to the pedestal...
Remember that mic's (and little speakers in radios) have strong magnets in them. Remove them from that area when using/reading your compass.
That goes double for the Really Strong magnets in the little chart chip doors on most Garmin chartplotters, and a lot of Raymarines and other brands as well.

Loren

Loren Beach said:

Normally, being "attractive" is an OK thing except --- when it's not.
Regarding a move to the pedestal...
Remember that mic's (and little speakers in radios) have strong magnets in them. Remove them from that area when using/reading your compass.
That goes double for the Really Strong magnets in the little chart chip doors on most Garmin chartplotters, and a lot of Raymarines and other brands as well.

Loren

Click to expand...

Yes, this is why I have all the toys over on the port bulkhead, and nothing but the compass over on starboard. All that tempting gadget real-estate empty...

BTW: For those who haven't installed one yet, the SH RAM mic does come with an external speaker lead already wired in at the socket. You don't strictly need one, because the mic itself serves that function to some extent, but if it could help, it's easy to just hook one up.

Magnetic Attraction

Well, yes. Loren in absolutely correct about getting magnets too close to the compass. I have already encountered the destabilizing effects of the magnet in my Garmin chart plotter's chip door on my otherwise beautiful compass. So I should know better. But...That's why Loren is the senior moderator and I am groveling around in the bilge mumbling about correcting a mike placement I made last year. I gotta figure out how to extend the mike's cable another foot and I will report on how I did it when I do it.

Ready about?

Larry Lee
Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA

Lawrence B. Lee said:

Well, yes. Loren in absolutely correct about getting magnets too close to the compass. I have already encountered the destabilizing effects of the magnet in my Garmin chart plotter's chip door on my otherwise beautiful compass. So I should know better. But...That's why Loren is the senior moderator and I am groveling around in the bilge mumbling about correcting a mike placement I made last year. I gotta figure out how to extend the mike's cable another foot and I will report on how I did it when I do it.

Ready about?

Larry Lee
Annabel Lee
E 32-200
Savannah, GA

Click to expand...

I spun my compass rose once while getting out my credit card at the fuel dock.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

paul culver said:

I spun my compass rose once while getting out my credit card at the fuel dock.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

Click to expand...

You should see what happens when you remove a nearby screw and the driver happens to have one of those magnetic tips. You might get dizzy!

Our Garmin 541s sits on the metal base attached to the pedestal that the original instruments were on. We haven't noticed any undue magnetic interference.

Warnings, Liability, and Practicality

Rick R. said:

Our Garmin 541s sits on the metal base attached to the pedestal that the original instruments were on. We haven't noticed any undue magnetic interference.

Click to expand...

Your real-world experience counts for a lot, no doubt about it.
But.................
Per Garmin, the "compass safe distance" is 30".
http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/GPSMAP_400-500_Series_INST_EN.pdf

Given that magnetic interference is NOT linear, but rather a geometric progression, you might find that once you get beyond a foot or two it diminishes to a factor that you can no longer see/experience.

Note also that this also depends on the position of the compass card, rotationally, and the orientation at all normal angles of heel.

Rather than adding I do not mean to worry you, actually I do intend to do just that. Some, anyway.
We can ill afford to lose any Ericson owners...


The effect might be subtle as you move the plotter away toward the fringe of the specified distance, but even a couple of degrees of card pull at certain headings or heel angles will put the boat on a jetty on some future dark night when the electronics have quit for whatever reason and you are navigating with compass, chart, and hand-held flashlight. :0

**Further, to soften the effect of my rants just a bit, I feel obligated to add that when our local compass adjuster swung our compass, I did ask him about this issue. At the time I was contemplating the purchase of a new Chart-plotter for mounting at the helm. He said that it was awful that so many instrument makers had gone to the magnet on their chart door closure, and that in the real world he would try the new instrument in its proposed location and look Very carefully at the card for ANY movement at all.

I did that and found immediate swings of many degrees with several new plotters.
I went with the new model 9" Lowrance with a friction-catch chart door (no magnet, no problem in our trial and subsequent usage).

Note B: I realize that All devices can still have some magnetism from other components or their circuit boards, and that this is truly a situation where "YMMV"....
:nerd:

So, do as you will, but do read the manual and consider the ramifications. I figure that Garmin is hoping to use that clause to limit their liability in court when your surviving relatives sue 'em after your boat sinks. Garmin may be ultra conservative in their installation distance warning, but then again their design engineers may mean it quite literally.


As the sergeant used to say on "Hill Street Blues", Be careful out there!



Regards,
Loren

Loren Beach said:

Your real-world experience counts for a lot, no doubt about it.
But.................
Per Garmin, the "compass safe distance" is 30".
http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/GPSMAP_400-500_Series_INST_EN.pdf

Given that magnetic interference is NOT linear, but rather a geometric progression, you might find that once you get beyond a foot or two it diminishes to a factor that you can no longer see/experience.

Note also that this also depends on the position of the compass card, rotationally, and the orientation at all normal angles of heel.

Rather than adding I do not mean to worry you, actually I do intend to do just that. Some, anyway.
We can ill afford to lose any Ericson owners...


The effect might be subtle as you move the plotter away toward the fringe of the specified distance, but even a couple of degrees of card pull at certain headings or heel angles will put the boat on a jetty on some future dark night when the electronics have quit for whatever reason and you are navigating with compass, chart, and hand-held flashlight. :0

**Further, to soften the effect of my rants just a bit, I feel obligated to add that when our local compass adjuster swung our compass, I did ask him about this issue. At the time I was contemplating the purchase of a new Chart-plotter for mounting at the helm. He said that it was awful that so many instrument makers had gone to the magnet on their chart door closure, and that in the real world he would try the new instrument in its proposed location and look Very carefully at the card for ANY movement at all.

I did that and found immediate swings of many degrees with several new plotters.
I went with the new model 9" Lowrance with a friction-catch chart door (no magnet, no problem in our trial and subsequent usage).

Note B: I realize that All devices can still have some magnetism from other components or their circuit boards, and that this is truly a situation where "YMMV"....
:nerd:

So, do as you will, but do read the manual and consider the ramifications. I figure that Garmin is hoping to use that clause to limit their liability in court when your surviving relatives sue 'em after your boat sinks. Garmin may be ultra conservative in their installation distance warning, but then again their design engineers may mean it quite literally.


As the sergeant used to say on "Hill Street Blues", Be careful out there!



Regards,
Loren

Click to expand...

I was worried about this issue when we installed the unit two years ago.

FWIW, a good friend of mine with a Morgan Out Island 41 upgraded to a new Garmin 740s last summer. He was concerned about Garmin's admonishment not to place the unit within the specified area as well. I told him where we put ours with no ill effect on the compass and he did the same (with no noticeable issue).

I recently installed a Standard Horizon GX 2100 Matrix AIS, along with the RAM3 cockpit mic. I haven’t had too much time to mess around with it yet, but it seems like a nice addition. I can view and dial up AIS targets from in the cockpit, or below deck. The screens are fairly small, but if you adjust to the correct range, it seems like it will be ok. Especially more so in open water. In congested areas, I can also use my iPhone Boat Beacon AIS app.



I already had a Standard Horizon HX 851 handheld, which has built in GPS, so I just wired it directly to my new AIS for the GPS signal (to the right in the photo below). I have an older version Furono NavNet chart plotter and radar, which won’t display AIS targets because it is a generation too old (it’s hard to spend money on marine electronics, because they are obsolete so fast). I pretty much just use the Furono for the radar anyways, and use my iPhone and/or one of two iPads and/or Android phone for navigation (the best back-up for GPS is another GPS!).



Mark

Raymarine and Mag compass

I have just installed a Raymarine e7D chart plotter at the helm and had quite a time with the compass issue. Of course I fantasized the ideal installation and bought most of the gear before getting that deep into the installation instructions.

The recommendation is 1 meter, but there is a minimum distance they printed in the installation manual in a small diagram right below. When all else fails, that distance is just 300 mm/(11.8 in).


So, I am right at the minimum with my helm installation. I can't go swing the compass until I am back in the water.

Thanks for the tip on the RAM mic having a speaker with a magnet. Of course it does - all cool convenience items come with a catch-22. I bought a Std. Horizon Matrix 2000 radio and installed it at the companionway above the galley (where the old one was). I have the RAM connector at the backside of the chartplotter pod that houses the nav gear and autopilot head. I'll wait to install a clip for the RAM until I can evaluate the possibility of compass effects.

I have the Raymarine Class B AIS and it sends it's data to the radio for DSC hailing purposes via NMEA0183. I can also get DSC alerts from the radio, sent to the chartplotter, via NMEA0183.

AIS on Chartplotter

Hi Mark and Craig. First. Nice job, Mark, on installing your GX 2100 Matrix AIS, along with the RAM3 cockpit mic. I installed my GX2100 where the old VHF was located (near the overhead in the galley to the left of the sink). The location is close to the cockpit and easy to get to. I also installed the RAM 3 in the cockpit by placing the mic on a clip on the port side pushpit. It is far enough from the compass that it causes no interference. I really like the AIS feature which shows up on the VHF and on the RAM3 mic and the mic also has a built in speaker which has made it much easier to hear the calls (now if I can just cut down on the constant alerts when in Bellingham Bay). I used to keep a handheld VHF in the cockpit so I could hear the calls better - didn't work all that well. Anyway, it is nice to have a speaker close to the helm. Thanks. Dave Cahill (Amazing Grace)

I gave up. Compass and GPS and P70 control head (wheel pilot) never agree.

You can't steer a compass course within five degrees anyhow, so who cares how accurate it is.

I conclude that you need to know where you are, not where you intended to be or where you are trying to go.

Before gps we never really knew where we are--as proved by the desperate attempt in currents and fogs to get a binocular confirmation of a buoy, any buoy, and how frequently it wasn't the buoy it was supposed to be.

So now I just fudge through it all, relying on the gps always to tell me where I am.

This article is helpful to the psyche (At least I'm not the only one whose instruments never match):

http://themarineinstallersrant.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-compass-conumdrum.html

Here's my installation. Compass one foot from the other stuff. Close enough for jazz.

Our radio is at the nav station with the RAM mic in the starboard cockpit combing near the auto pilot display. The Garmin 740 sits on a SS bracket where the starboard pod was. I get AIS on the plotter and because we have a lot of shipping around here, I turn off the AIS alarm inshore. Also, if I do not turn on the plotter, the radio tells me it is not receiving GPS.

It is odd, but ...

The idea that the AIS should be left on, essentially at all times power is available, might seem odd, but I bet many owners do it because they can see via the Internet that their boat is where they left it. I have heard at a boat show, or read, maybe, that this is another "advantage" of AIS. A cheap security system, at least cheaper than the boat burglar alarms and live camera feeds you can monitor over the Internet.

I will keep my AIS alarms off in the crowded areas we normally sail, except maybe underway in fog, or when we are crossing a busy strait. I have to keep the alarms off in the yard for crying out loud because there are half a dozen boats at the nearby dock and around me on stands that have their AIS turned on. And they're always creeping around at 0.1 knots, scaring the other boats.

And I will probably keep my AIS off when moored at a dock, but maybe not when at anchor ... Depends on how that solar panel idea works out.

Edit: Loved the Installer's Rant!

I don't typically see Class B boats on Marine Traffic (Maybe it's because I;m not a subscriber).

Here's a good article on the limitations of our AIS gear:

[h=1]Where's my boat? A troubleshooting guide for Class B AIS[/h]

http://www.milltechmarine.com/Wheres-my-boat-A-troubleshooting-guide-for-Class-B-AIS_b_7.html

I went with the GX 2100 and Raymarine e7D and p70 control for the AP, housed in a NavPod. I too have some issues with compass readings. The AP will often differ from the Ritchie by as much as 10 deg and it will vary (some times it is spot on, sometimes not). I have not figured it out but agree that probably that does not matter all that much in real life. My understanding is that the issue with proximity is that they used a magnet to close the little door covering the SD card. I have checked the Ritchie against several other compasses and it is still ok with the instruments at the helm. When installing, we checked the compass reading with the e7D a meter away and only inches away. I really don't think it is an issue if you are at least 9-10 inches between the bottom of the device and the compass.
When in doubt, I will use the magnetic compass over the GPS or the AP. We do find that if we set a waypoint on the AP, we end up where we want to be....but the course tends to alter over a few hours (weather helm, currents, who knows?)
As for the AIS, we use the alarms if we are more than a few miles offshore or if there is any fog, etc. Close in, it can drive you crazy as there can be several boats "too close" even with a very short alarm range setting and that sucker is loud. It is fun though to see what info you can get from surrounding boats.

lnill said:

I went with the GX 2100 and Raymarine e7D and p70 control for the AP, housed in a NavPod. I too have some issues with compass readings. The AP will often differ from the Ritchie by as much as 10 deg and it will vary (some times it is spot on, sometimes not). I have not figured it out but agree that probably that does not matter all that much in real life. My understanding is that the issue with proximity is that they used a magnet to close the little door covering the SD card. I have checked the Ritchie against several other compasses and it is still ok with the instruments at the helm. When installing, we checked the compass reading with the e7D a meter away and only inches away. I really don't think it is an issue if you are at least 9-10 inches between the bottom of the device and the compass.
When in doubt, I will use the magnetic compass over the GPS or the AP. We do find that if we set a waypoint on the AP, we end up where we want to be....but the course tends to alter over a few hours (weather helm, currents, who knows?)
As for the AIS, we use the alarms if we are more than a few miles offshore or if there is any fog, etc. Close in, it can drive you crazy as there can be several boats "too close" even with a very short alarm range setting and that sucker is loud. It is fun though to see what info you can get from surrounding boats.

Click to expand...

When we installed the EV1 AP, I think there was an offset adjustment for the AP to dial it in.

Rick R. said:

When we installed the EV1 AP, I think there was an offset adjustment for the AP to dial it in.

Click to expand...

Yes, my unit has this feature. Unfortunately, the variation is not consistent. Like I said, sometimes all three (compass, AP, and GPS) agree and other times they don't. Mostly they don't but the amount varies. Since it is never more than about 8-10 degrees, I just don't worry about it. We always double check with a paper chart and magnetic compass if going very far. I have a friend who is a Raymarine installer and he has not been able to figure it out either.

Like I said, sometimes all three (compass, AP, and GPS) agree and other times they don't. Mostly they don't...

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Yup, my dear old pappy used to tell me "a man with a watch is happy; a man with two watches is confused." :0