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Crack Above Keel E-29

jkenan

Member III
So I can say from first-hand experience, this was caused by a hard-grounding. I ran aground hard in the bight at Cape Lookout last Fall (the channels shift quite a bit, and create shelves of sand that are practically vertical. Yep, that's what I ran into at 6 knots). Now, I have an almost identical crack (compared to photos posted above) in the roving atop my keel that goes about two feet, from the middle access hole in the bilge, up to the compression post bulkhead. I discovered it today, while the boat was on the hard, and just before I had to drive 3hrs back home. Sorry I don't have any photos, I'll try to take one next week when I'm back down on the boat.

I didn't realize what damage I had done when I ran aground this past October. I looked in the bilge immediately afterwards for water, and it was dry. I looked in the aft bilge access hole and so didn't see the crack (it started under the middle access hole). The boat went on a two more trips afterwards in 2013, and wintered on her mooring. She is hauled out right now for a new bottom coat, and one of my tasks in the haul out was to study the exterior fiberglass for any signs of cracks (I even pinged around the keel and surrounding underbody for delimitation. All felt solid).

The roving that is cracked, directly over the keel, on my boat is very thin - maybe two layers of roving at the most, and no more than 1/16-inch thick. So what I suspect happened was the hull flexed when running aground pushing the keel up ever so much, and that area, being the thinnest and experiencing a significant tensile force as the keel was pushed up, cracked and parted. If the glass there is meant to be structural, I have to think it would have been thicker. I think it was merely to cover up the keel resin, scrap, what have you. I will have the yard owner (Alan, for those of you familiar with Oriental, NC - he knows his s..t!) take a look. I suspect it will be fine to relaunch her and sail this season.

But I do want to repair her, and when I do, I will come back to this thread for valuable insight. I will gut the floor along with the compression post stringer (if you can call it that), and glass in structural stringers (akin to structural grid employed in later Ericson's) as a floor base and then lay down something nice - teak & holly, or bamboo, etc.
 

PDX

Member III
So I can say from first-hand experience, this was caused by a hard-grounding. I ran aground hard in the bight at Cape Lookout last Fall (the channels shift quite a bit, and create shelves of sand that are practically vertical. Yep, that's what I ran into at 6 knots). Now, I have an almost identical crack (compared to photos posted above) in the roving atop my keel that goes about two feet, from the middle access hole in the bilge, up to the compression post bulkhead. I discovered it today, while the boat was on the hard, and just before I had to drive 3hrs back home. Sorry I don't have any photos, I'll try to take one next week when I'm back down on the boat.

I didn't realize what damage I had done when I ran aground this past October. I looked in the bilge immediately afterwards for water, and it was dry. I looked in the aft bilge access hole and so didn't see the crack (it started under the middle access hole). The boat went on a two more trips afterwards in 2013, and wintered on her mooring. She is hauled out right now for a new bottom coat, and one of my tasks in the haul out was to study the exterior fiberglass for any signs of cracks (I even pinged around the keel and surrounding underbody for delimitation. All felt solid).

The roving that is cracked, directly over the keel, on my boat is very thin - maybe two layers of roving at the most, and no more than 1/16-inch thick. So what I suspect happened was the hull flexed when running aground pushing the keel up ever so much, and that area, being the thinnest and experiencing a significant tensile force as the keel was pushed up, cracked and parted. If the glass there is meant to be structural, I have to think it would have been thicker. I think it was merely to cover up the keel resin, scrap, what have you. I will have the yard owner (Alan, for those of you familiar with Oriental, NC - he knows his s..t!) take a look. I suspect it will be fine to relaunch her and sail this season.

But I do want to repair her, and when I do, I will come back to this thread for valuable insight. I will gut the floor along with the compression post stringer (if you can call it that), and glass in structural stringers (akin to structural grid employed in later Ericson's) as a floor base and then lay down something nice - teak & holly, or bamboo, etc.


Let us know when you get ready to do your TFG project. I can show pictures from my project that you may find interesting.
 

dudley500

Junior Member
I look forward to seeing your pics. I did find some damage to the front of my keel when I finished stripping the bottom. Its was about 3/4 of the way up and about 6 inches long. Other than that everything seems solid. I ground out the old repair because it had hairline cracks and redid it.
 

jkenan

Member III
TFG Project on E29

Let us know when you get ready to do your TFG project. I can show pictures from my project that you may find interesting.

Hi PDX-

I'm going to be hauling my E29 out this spring to repair the crack in the layup above the keel from grounding several years ago, and would like to incorporate some form of a grid for stiffening and strength. I would appreciate seeing the photos you offered of your TFG project. Please feel free to message me back channel if you like.

My plan is cut the entire floor pan of the main cabin out at the lip (about 3 inches away from settees). After grinding and repairing the crack, I want to build up a floor support that doubles as a strengthening grid, and then install over that a new teak/holly sole.

The crack from running aground has remained bone dry all this time, and upon inspection when sailing in rough seas, I cannot feel any flex at all. This makes me think the roving is simply a cover for the keel, and does not serve as any significant structural support. Time to fix it though, since I'm hauling out
 

PDX

Member III
John:

My goals with my TAFG exercise were:

1. To stiffen the boat front and back.

2. To support the keel.

My boat (1968 E-30) had no structural supports on top of the keel at all. The sole was 3/4" plywood tabbed all around. It would have supported the hull somewhat but not the keel. The keel itself is shaped like a parallelogram (similar to yours I believe). The forward two thirds is filled with solid lead. The back two thirds is hollow although filled with expanding foam. I dug out the foam down to a depth of about ten inches so I could put support the trailing edge of the lead area with a cross piece. The picture shows the layout of the two stringers, held in place with clamps and plywood spacers, in the vicinity the area of the keel I dug out where the expanding foam had been.

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The TAFG was made from two inch medium density foam. I ran two stringers fore and aft first. The forward ends were connected to the main cabin bulkhead. The aft ends were connected to the engine mount I had built earlier (from the same stuff). Then I filled in with three sets of cross pieces, all of which were made from two inch medium density foam. I used vinylester resin, both to attach the foam pieces to the hull and to glass over the tops. Two layers of 20 oz biaxial cloth--no mat.

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jkenan

Member III
Very nice work. Thanks for sharing. This gives me inspiration for my project. I am excited to replace the floor - I never liked the fiberglass cabin sole, and rugs were always awkward. I can envision a grid like that, to which a decorative floor attaches - perhaps a marine ply with teak or bamboo laminated on the surface. Lets face it - the floor is only something like 3' x 4'. We're not talking major surgery here, only minor....

Will post photos once I've committed to something. Thanks again, PDX!
 

PDX

Member III
Very nice work. Thanks for sharing. This gives me inspiration for my project. I am excited to replace the floor - I never liked the fiberglass cabin sole, and rugs were always awkward. I can envision a grid like that, to which a decorative floor attaches - perhaps a marine ply with teak or bamboo laminated on the surface. Lets face it - the floor is only something like 3' x 4'. We're not talking major surgery here, only minor....

Will post photos once I've committed to something. Thanks again, PDX!


Originally my sole was 3/4 inch marine plywood covered with shag carpet. The grid support allowed me to size down to 1/2 inch plywood. I veneered over with 1/8 inch resawn teak strips. So far the teak veneer has held up fine, although it has only seen one year of use.

I can't remember whether the interior woodwork on your boat is teak or mahogany. If you're trying to match a teak look you can also consider either ipe or cumaru. Both are considerably cheaper than teak and much harder. Both are also much heavier although if you're only using 1/8 inch strips that weight difference shouldn't matter much. In retrospect I kind of wish I had gone that route, although, as I say, the teak has held up fine so far.
 

jkenan

Member III
I finally did it...

I'm finally tackling the crack in the bilge caused by a hard grounding. Pictures attached include the crack itself pre-repair, looking at the filler after cutting off the cracked laminate covering the keel, and looking at the cleaned bilge (using On/Off which definitely cleaned it up nicely, also being very careful not to get water into the filler, which I had coated with some thickened epoxy as an additional water barrier beforehand).

While I firmly believe the crack is not a structural compromise (the material covering the keel is 1 or 2 layers of heavy cloth, very thin), it still should be dealt with to 1) prevent water from soaking into the 'filler' material over the keel (looks and feels like dirt, and fortunately, my bilge has always been dry), and 2) avoid concerns of having a crack there if I ever decide to sell. As stated before, I'll use the opportunity to strengthen the hull, and install a new cabin sole which will be an improvement over the crazed, dinged, and stained floor liner I just cut out. As far as strengthening the hull, plan is follow PDX's approach by glassing in stringers (foam, marine plywood, or even white oak which I have plenty of - have not decided yet), being careful to level it exactly to support a new floor.

Next weekend, plan is sand, clean, and lay down several new layers of roving with epoxy to cover keel again. Then, build templates for new stringers going from side to side. After that, not yet sure what the specific plan will be to install a new floor, and would love to hear some ideas. I haven't decided yet whether to cut the floor panel all the way back to the vertical settee walls/bulkhead, etc, or whether to cut out floor all the way into the V-Berth and replace the whole thing anew, or just to replace the recessed main salon floor. My first cut used the 1.25" circular saw guide against the lip where the recessed floor rises up, so currently I have 1.25 inch border of recessed floor all around.

Other thoughts include building a water tank to sit in the bilge under floor.

Open to any and all ideas.

Thanks,
John
 

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toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Before I got to the last line, I was thinking, "what a great opportunity to add an integral water tank!" Stringers might act as baffles...
 
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