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New E-25+ owner questions

Windaveski

Junior Member
Hi family Ericson,
I purchased a very nice 1979 E 25+ last summer and sail it in the south puget sound. I am generally very happy with the boat but have a few questions and would much appreciate any help.

My background: Been sailing since before I can remember, ~60years. Most of my early sailing was on smaller simpler boats. 30 years ago I got hooked on windsurfing in the Columbia Gorge and haven't sailed boats much since. Now I am learning and relearning.

HELM BALANCE
I have had a difficult time balancing the helm using sheet trimming and traveler. I often have a leeward helm that is difficult to adjust out. The last couple of times I have sailed I started working with the after stay tensioning (something I don't have experience with) and it seemed to help. What is the proper way to adjust the stay tension? Any other balancing options I am missing? Is it possible to overtension the after stay and cause damage.

MAIN SHEET RIGGING
My Traveler is at the forward end of the cockpit and I think the original boom attachment point was directly above it. However the sheet is currently attached to the end of the boom. I think this was done to avoid sheet interference with the dodger. The result is that the sheet 'sweeps' the cockpit. I find this unacceptable for my casual daysailing/short cruising use of the boat.
I would like to move the traveler to the cabin top. I realize this is a pretty big job but don't see any show stoppers except the structural integrity of the cabintop or the boom. My thought would be to buy something like a Garhauer traveler with risers and mount it forward of the dodger. Anybody have experience with this type of modification or thoughts on the structural capabilities of the cabin and boom? Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dave
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Hi Dave,

The traveler on our E30+ is on the cabin roof in front of the dodger which I think is where you are wanting to put yours on your E25+. We love having ours there, with lines led aft into the cockpit for easy management. I'm pretty sure ours was designed to be there with the appropriate supports, and I don't know the E25+ well enough to know what modifications you would need to make to ensure that area is strong enough for the forces imposed on it by the traveler, but it's a much better place functionally than in the cockpit. Others may have more information on the structural considerations.

Regarding your lee helm, I think that's a rig tuning issue. Too much lee helm usually means that the mast needs more mast rake and maybe more mast bend as well. Your comment that applying backstay tension has decreased the lee helm would support this view. There is lots of information available on how to increase mast rake and mast bend if you do a search, but if you need guidance, there are lots of experts on this site who can chime in.

Frank
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Hi Dave,

I am very familiar with the E25+ and owned an '84 E26 (same hull and rig). Sounds like you need more aft mast rake. You should measure your rake on a windless day using your main halyard with a weight or mabe just the shackle if it's heavy enough to keep the halyard steady and pull down significantly. I would think +/- 4 inches of rake (aft) be a good starting point. Generally, you do need to loosen your headstay as you tighten the backstay to move the masthead aft while keeping the rig tension constant. If your rig tension was very loose, then tightening the backstay is the place to start. Too much tightening of only the backstay will add tension at first, but then will add mast BEND on your 7/8ths fractional rig due to the leverage the backstay has attaching to the top of the mast. Mast BEND, bows the mast forward in the middle section which depowers the main by making it flatter. It also tightens the fore-aft rig tension somewhat at the same time which flattens the jib, both good in higher winds but not what you want in lighter winds - will add to lee helm.

You didn't mention the headsail size you are using or the general windspeed you sail in. I would add even more rake if you are using a only 100% jib and/or sailing primarily in lighter winds.

The E26 came with the 4:1 mainsheet up on the cabin top in front of the companionway. This clears the cockpit of the mainsheet and also eliminates interference with the dodger. Adding a new traveller there should be straight forward and no extra re-inforcing should be needed, just use beefy washers/backing for the traveller fasteners. I'm sure one of the E26 owners can post some pictures of the setup. You get less leverage on the boom, the closer you attach to the mast and you have a few more blocks that can add friction so consider that when you upgrade. The E26 just used a Harken cam cleat on the aft edge of the cabintop as a stopper and no winch was needed. With tiller steering, and the short cockpit on the E25+/26, the mainsheet is still pretty close at hand in this location.

Mark
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
E25+ traveler

Hi! And congrats on your new (to you) E25+. I think I can give you some info (and pictures) that may help in terms of a traveler setup.

I have a 1984 E26-2, which, as you've just read, is essentially the same boat as what you have. (I've had the boat for just over a year.) The hull is identical, and the only differences that I know of are the placement of the traveler and a modification to the forward part of the coach roof, which is more sloped/less vertical than on the E25+. That's it, so far as I know.

Ericson moved the traveler to the aft end of the sea hood on the E26, vs. placing it on the bridge deck as you have it. The sea hood is seriously inadequate, in my opinion, because it's not beefy enough for the loads involved. Not long after I bought the boat I noticed that the sea hood was flexing to an alarming degree. In looking at it closely I also noticed a fair amount of cracking on the hood, at the outboard ends of the traveler track. That, coupled with the fact that I didn't care much for the hardware, made me decide to replace it with a Garhauer traveler.

Attached are three pictures of my setup. You'll notice in one of the pictures where the original traveler was located. (I haven't gotten around to covering it with a piece of teak trim.) You'll see that I moved it just slightly aft of the sea hood, though if you are concerned with a dodger you may want to move it just a little forward of that. (The reason I moved it ever so slightly aft is because there are some wooden pieces underneath the zippered headliner and I wanted the mounting bolts to clear them.) I made no modifications to the locations of the boom bails; as I said, I moved it only very slightly aft. I was glad to discover that there is plywood and not balsa coring in the area where I mounted the traveler.

The traveler came with pre-drilled stainless backing plates. The thing is bomb proof! Plus, it works very, very nicely compared to the crappy stuff that was on there before. I single hand most of the time and the new traveler is a joy to operate. It's a very nice upgrade.

Hope this helps,
Alan
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Windaveski

Junior Member
Great Info

Many thanks for the timely and useful info. It really addresses my concerns very directly. Based on Alan's comments about minimal changes from the E-25+ to the E-26 and his pictures, I think the traveler upgrade may be easier than I had anticipated. Do you think they may have beefed up the boom on the 26 to handle increased loads? My boom cross section is oval shaped and 3.5" high X 2.25" wide. I haven't dug deep enough to check the wall thickness.

Thanks again,
Dave
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Many thanks for the timely and useful info. It really addresses my concerns very directly. Based on Alan's comments about minimal changes from the E-25+ to the E-26 and his pictures, I think the traveler upgrade may be easier than I had anticipated. Do you think they may have beefed up the boom on the 26 to handle increased loads? My boom cross section is oval shaped and 3.5" high X 2.25" wide. I haven't dug deep enough to check the wall thickness.

Thanks again,
Dave

Hmmm...don't know the answer as far as whether the boom section was beefed up on the 26. I doubt it, but that is purely a guess. You could contact these folks, since they still sell replacement booms, masts, and other hardware for these boats: http://www.rigrite.com/. My E26 has Kenyon spars, but I don't know anything beyond that.
 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Dave,

Rigrite lists the Kenyon D section boom for the E25+.

http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/D-boom.html

The E26 is not listed on the Rigrite site but I'm pretty sure all the rig parts for the E26 match the E25+. I doubt Ericson needed to beef up the boom for the E26. I've seen E36RHs with mainsheets moved up to the cabintop from the bridge deck still using the stock boom section.

Alan has better info on the durability of the stock E26 main traveller than I do. My E26 was near new and I only had it a couple of years. The original blocks and cars are not nearly as nice as modern ball bearing versions so everybody will be upgrading from the originals sooner or later. I still have the original parts to my traveller and I'm planning to upgrade to Harken this winter. Moving the location at the same time makes the most sense to me.

Mark
 

CHtahoe

Junior Member
New E25+ owner as well

Thanks Alan, for the pics and info. I too would like to relocate my MS traveler from the bridgedeck to the cabintop and the process you illustrated looks to be the way to go. Last spring I was in SoCal on business and made a detour to Upland to visit Garhauer. They are a great bunch; a small family business that manufactures most all their catalog onsite with care and high level of professionalism. Awesome, American made products that meet or exceed the industry giants (made offshore)! I support them every chance I get.
With that said, what model did you use on your retrofit?
Cheers,
CH
ctm-racing@sbcglobal.net
Tahoe & San Francisco
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senecadaze

Member I
Nice traveler pics

Alan your set up is amazing.
I have expensive taste but I don’t have deep pockets.
My plan is to use, what is referred to above as the sea hood to mount my fabricated traveler. This setup will only be used in gentle breeze and on an inland lake, anything over ten knots and I shackle my end boom sheet back to the companionway traveler.

I have the rest of the winter to layup epoxy and some cloth on the flipside of the cowling to beef it up, and add some ss lag bolts near ends of traveler that will ,I hope, add more strength to the cowling. planning on drilling through slider rails, screwed in and threaded side up.
 

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Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Thanks Alan, for the pics and info. I too would like to relocate my MS traveler from the bridgedeck to the cabintop and the process you illustrated looks to be the way to go. Last spring I was in SoCal on business and made a detour to Upland to visit Garhauer. They are a great bunch; a small family business that manufactures most all their catalog onsite with care and high level of professionalism. Awesome, American made products that meet or exceed the industry giants (made offshore)! I support them every chance I get.
With that said, what model did you use on your retrofit?
Cheers,
CH
ctm-racing@sbcglobal.net
Tahoe & San Francisco

You should confirm with Guido, but I believe the risers were the model UR-1. Also, Guido described the track as their low profile track with a reinforcing bar underneath it, though I'm not sure he gave me a model number. All I can tell you is that the thing is an exceedingly overbuilt beast :D and works really well! I do know that the total out the door was about $600.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Senecadaze, I'm not sure if that's a good idea....

Hi Senecadaze,

I am also on a fixed income and need to watch expenditures carefully, but I don't like the looks of the option you are choosing, attaching the traveler to the sea hood. We have an E30+ with a sea hood, so I know a bit of what they are like, and it doesn't seem strong enough to me, even with reinforcement and limiting your use to 10 knots. I am worried you might crack the sea hood, or rip the traveler right out of the sea hood.

Even on lake sailing, a gust can come up unexpectedly, or wind increases gradually while you are on a down wind run and when you turn up into the wind, the extra pressure becomes noticeable but by then it's too late to move the main sheet from it's sea hood location.

I may be wrong, but it looks like a significant risk to me. Is there no better option? On our boat the traveler is placed in front of the dodger, but attached on either side of the sea hood with appropriate bolts through the deck, not through the sea hood.

Hope it works out for you!

Frank

Frank
 

senecadaze

Member I
Hi Senecadaze,

I am also on a fixed income and need to watch expenditures carefully, but I don't like the looks of the option you are choosing, attaching the traveler to the sea hood. We have an E30+ with a sea hood, so I know a bit of what they are like, and it doesn't seem strong enough to me, even with reinforcement and limiting your use to 10 knots. I am worried you might crack the sea hood, or rip the traveler right out of the sea hood.

Even on lake sailing, a gust can come up unexpectedly, or wind increases gradually while you are on a down wind run and when you turn up into the wind, the extra pressure becomes noticeable but by then it's too late to move the main sheet from it's sea hood location.

I may be wrong, but it looks like a significant risk to me. Is there no better option? On our boat the traveler is placed in front of the dodger, but attached on either side of the sea hood with appropriate bolts through the deck, not through the sea hood.

Hope it works out for you!

Frank

Frank



Thanks for your concerns frank, The traveler will be attached to the reinforced sea hood, and the seahood will have extra bolts attaching it into the deck, I solo sail 95percent of the time and I know what an accidental jibe can do to all the hardware,many of the ericsons 25+/26' had the sea hood traveler so I see no reason why I can't improve on the concept.
Cheers
 
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