Through Hull valve the cools my Atomic 4

I was working on my enigne this weekend, and noticed when I closed my valve for the raw intake for my Atomic 4, the water wouldn't shut off. After looking more into it, it appears someone put a home depot ball valve on my boat and it doesn't look good. It is all green, the handles move but the valve doesn't shut off. I am guessing the threads don't match either between the valve and through hull. This is something I know I can't wait on fixing. Does anyone know what size value I need? And anyone around Long Beach know of a boat yard that will pull my boat our to a responable price and allow me to fix it on my own?

Geoff

The original thru-hull sizing in many smaller 70's inboard boats was 1/2". If you are going to pull the boat anyhow to fix/update this, you will want to change it the modern small intake standard, 3/4".
Lots of new choices for a seacock, Marlon or bronze...

While some folks have done this by having someone dive and put plumber's plunger over the outside while the inside valve was removed, there is a risk of rotating the whole thru-hull and then still needing a haulout to fix it.

Bummer to have an unplanned expense like this come along, but holes in your hull Do need to kept safe and controlled. :0

Best of luck,


Loren

A diver can also stuff some plumber's putty into the thru hull from the outside and seal it off quite well while you cut off just the valve from the inside with a Dremel or, preferably, a Sawzall. You can probably measure enough on the existing mushroom to be able to have a full replacement including the correct flange ready to go before you cut the mushroom itself off without trying to skin just the valve off - it can all be replaced in the water with only a few seconds of terror while the boat is open to the Pacific rushing in. Your local diver has probably done this many times and has all kinds of tricks. I know this will work in Long Beach because I did this on my boat in the early '90s when I was berthed at what was then the Navy Marina on Terminal Island.

Personally, I wouldn't seek to drill a larger hole in the boat at this point. The A4 probably cools just fine with whatever hole you've got.

Haul Out Time Anyway?

Geoff,

Isn't it time to haul out the boat for a bottom paint job? In the winter, Marina Shipyard usually runs a special with a free haul out when you have them paint the bottom. Give them a call and see when that is. They will let you change out the thru hull. Its probaby time to check all of the thru hulls/valves especially to a new-to-you boat. As long as the hose and clamps look good, I think it can wait til then. BTW, any idea how the wait list to transfer to ABM is going or are you staying at Shoreline?

Just saw where Jeff posted this link in another thread!

http://www.marinashipyard.com/page4

Through hull

I need bottom paint but don't have the $900 that right now. That is what the Marina quoted me and sounds like a good price. While she was out I was thinking about replacing the sink through hull and possible glossing over my head valves since I have a porta potty. I will call around to see if someone can fix it in the water just to see the cost difference.

sink through hull

Anyone know the size of the through hull on the sink/icebox drain? Is there an easy way to measure? Does the hose size match the through hull? I want to replace both when I pull it out.

Geoff

Through hull

If I move up to a 3/4" for cooling my Atomic 4, what other plumbing do I need to do? What size goes into the engine?

Geoff

I believe the stock through hull drains are 1 1/4" and stock through hull intakes are 1/2"

Most of the A4 engine hoses are usually 1/2", but if you wanted to, you could change the fitting going in to your strainer or pump, or whatever is first in your system.

Seacocks

Has anyone used Buck Algonquin Seacocks. http://www.buckalgonquin.com/

They are cheaper than the Groco and other brands but I am wondering why. A 3/4 valve with base is only $30 on Ebay. Groco are twice that. I do like the ideal of the adapter base so all you have to do is change the valve. Seems like a good thing to look at. I was thinking about putting those in where my head would go and capping them so that one day I can add a head. There are valves there now but they are not flange based.

Geoff

interesting question

geoatk said:

Has anyone used Buck Algonquin Seacocks. http://www.buckalgonquin.com/

They are cheaper than the Groco and other brands but I am wondering why. A 3/4 valve with base is only $30 on Ebay. Groco are twice that. I do like the ideal of the adapter base so all you have to do is change the valve. Seems like a good thing to look at. I was thinking about putting those in where my head would go and capping them so that one day I can add a head. There are valves there now but they are not flange based.

Geoff

Click to expand...

They're an old company in this business. I guess I'd buy the seacock without any reservation.
Perhaps the Groco name simply is worth a bit more?
I would want the one-piece seacock rather than the valve screwed onto the thruhull, though. Personal preference.

Also, scrolling down the list of their products listed at the named 'net vendor (Marine Parts Source)on eBay, most of them seem pretty much usual-historical-retail price, compared to historical pricing for those products.
Just my .02, and YMMV. My memory may vary, too!

And then, "asking" prices on eBay, like those on CL, may not reflect actual selling prices, either.

Loren

seacocks

Thanks for the feedback.

Geoff

I was able to replace the engine intake valve while in the water by heeling the boat (E27) enough to get the valve above the water line. Lines pulling the top of the mast from a couple of slips over did the trick. Stow the stuff really secure on the port side before you try this..

seacock

Good to know. I will have to look into that. That sounds like a good idea.


Geoff

heeling the boat over

How far over does it have to go before the through valve is clear of the water?

Geoff

That's a function of how far between the waterline and the centerline the through-hull is placed. If it's halfway, then about 45 degrees.

Heeling a boat in a slip can get complicated fast if you have neighbors with masts or dock pilings close to the arc of the keel. It's somewhat easier at an end tie...but then access to the repair is more difficult.

heeling the boat over

My slip is big enough for 2 boats. Very wide and there are two power boats next to me. One on each side. I guess I would have to watch on both sides since the boat would swing. I might run out tonight and just check it out. I found a yard that would let me put her in the sling at lunch time and let me fix it while they where at lunch. He would charge me about $150 for that.

Heeling the boat

Santa Ana winds here in southern Cal. To get her to heel over, all I would have to do would be to put my sails up and I am sure that through hull would be out of the water (I am joking about doing this). I could probably repaint the bottom too at that time.

Geoff

through hull/seacock replacement

I hired a guy to replace while the boat was in the water. He thought the valve should come right off but it didn't. We ended up replacing the valve an through hull while it was in the water. It was amazing how easy it was. He was in the water and I was in the boat. Nice to know I can shut the water off.

Geoff

Huh?

A little more detail Geoff. Trying to figure out how you did that. I imagine the intrusion of water was just displaced by your bilge pump? A video would have been cool, but maybe you didn't want any documentation if things really went wrong!

geoatk said:

I hired a guy to replace while the boat was in the water. He thought the valve should come right off but it didn't. We ended up replacing the valve an through hull while it was in the water. It was amazing how easy it was. He was in the water and I was in the boat. Nice to know I can shut the water off.

Geoff

Click to expand...

through hull/seacock replacement

First, we went through the procedures several times. Including how to communicate by tapping on the hull. Once he figured out the through hull needed to be replaced, he started by cutting of the old one with a hack saw (started first withe my Dremel but couldn't cut all the way through because my blade was too small but it made a good starting point for the hack saw). Then he tapped in a wooden plug. Next he started to unscrew the retaining nut on the through hull. Once that was off and loose over the wooden plug, he started to work on prepping the new through hull. He simple covered it with 5200 but he had another back up sealant that he says is really strong. I don't remember the name of that one but I think it is an epoxy based one and is hard to get off. Next, he dove under the boat and removed the old grate which just fell apart and the screws the retained it.

In the mean time, I was in the boat waiting for him to tell me when to tap out the old through hull. The plan was to push the old one out, then he would immediately push in the new one in. I would start to tighten the nut. It took him a minute to put the new one on so I just put my hand over the hole to stop the water from coming in too fast. Not much water got past my hand. Once he pushed in the now one, I tapped the plug in the top of the new through hull and tightened the nut while he held it from moving. I then sealed the threads and put on the new valve. I did go with Forespar's marelon valve because it is the NPS thread and not a pipe thread. When I haul out in the spring, I am going to replace my through hulls and valves with a correct through hull/seacock that screws down to the hull.

I also replaced my cooling hoses. The old ones were full of crap. I was having problems with my engine warming up. I would run anywhere between 140 and 180. Now it stays right at 140. I still need to flush my engine and I want to add a strainer with a clear bulb so I can see what goes into my engine.

I did ask him what he would do if he came into trouble getting the new through hull in and he said he would put the wood plug into the hull, and rethink what he had to do and start over. He even told me that he is able to put in a new hole and through hull. It appears that a lot of people want to add a bait tank into there boats so he does that most often. It was the best $75 I have ever spent.

The amount of water that came into the boat didn't even fill up my bilge sump. Also, the way the wooden dowels work, I am guessing that if you had to use one at sea, it would be hard to keep it in. They don't seem to stay put really well. Of course, I just slightly tapped it in.

Geoff