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Rudder Issues: Bushings, Zerk Replacement, Grease

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Time for a look at my rudder bushings next haul-out. There's a bit of slack in the wheel which feels like the cables have stretched, but they're tight to specs (one inch deflection per foot).

However, if you observe the rudder tube while sailing, there is lateral movement of the tube itself. No water comes in, and the exterior of the tube shows no evidence of cracking or stress damage.

But--would bushing wear cause the rudder tube to move laterally?

(that is--you'd expect the rudder post to be slopping around inside the tube that contains it; but not the tube itself)
 
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Akavishon

Member III
Chris, imho, there should be no lateral movement at all, On my boat, the arrangement (top to bottom) goes like this:

a) The top of the rudder post plugs into a bronze flange which is through-bolted to the underside of the cockpit floor. The flange providers lateral support.
b) Below that, the quadrant is attached to the rudder post, but does not provide any support.
c) Below the quadrant, the rudder post goes through the rudder packing gland which is glassed to the rudder tube, and which also provides lateral support.
d) Next, the rudder post goes through the glass tube, and is finally laterally supported by a bronze bushing at its lower end.

In order for the rudder post to wiggle laterally, (a), (c) and/or (d) would need to be compromised, imho.

cheers, Zoran
 

ref_123

Member III
It's a tiny bit loose on our boat too. Both surveyor and yard manager said independently that it's a normal wear and not a big deal. Yard ended up wrapping a teflon sheet around the post, and that seem to fix the issue.

Regards,
Stan
E32-3 Fire Eater
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
The tube shouldn't move

I don't know anything about the E32 in particular, but there should be no movement of the fiberglass rudder *TUBE* (as opposed to the stainless steel rudder *POST*), and I think I'd want to find out right away what that is all about. As for play between the rudder post and the inside of the rudder tube, that's certainly not uncommon, due to such factors as wear and the fact that these were not fitted with close tolerances to begin with. I just replaced the rudder on my E26-2 and there was a little bit more play than I liked, so I used stainless steel shim material from McMaster-Carr and cut shims for the top and bottom of the post (i.e., where it comes up into the cockpit as well as where the post exits from the bottom of the hull). The post only bears on the top (a bronze bearing bolted to the cockpit sole) and the bottom (where it exits the hull), so it's not necessary to shim the entire length of the post. This allowed me to "dial in" the fit and it now steers quite nicely, with little or no slop in the helm. (My boat is tiller steered, so that would be the only place possible for slop; I have no quadrant, cables, etc.) As for wheel steering, when I had my Catalina 30 I found that tensioning the cables correctly definitely helped get a better feel on the helm. The trick was to tighten the cables "just enough," which is to say no tighter than necessary to remove any play or "dead band" in the steering. That was fairly easy to achieve on my Catalina 30 MK-II, as the radial drive was visible from the cockpit sole simply by removing a cover. So, I tightened the cables just enough so that wiggling the wheel even slightly translated into a wiggling of the radial drive. Once I got enough tension to achieve that I called it good.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here you can see the top of the rudder post (deck plate removed).
rudder post.jpg

That bushing is obviously shot--it allows a quarter-inch sideways movement when you turn the wheel. That's why adjusting my cables did not eliminate slop.

I'm having a professional come and look at the whole steering rig. The yard says often this bearing or bushing can be changed in the slip.H

I'm hauling anyhow on Nov. 15 (discounts begin), for new bottom paint. We'll check out the lower bushing then.

After today's visit, I doubt the fibreglass rudder tube is moving (as I claimed). What I was seeing was the stainless post wobbling inside the top bushing.

I'm not using the boat until this is fixed.

Thelonious rudder post.jpg
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I will sure be curious as to how this is resolved.
Your whole steering assembly - under deck and top plate - looks identical to the one on our boat.

Please post up any additional photos and information that you develop.

Thanks very much!

Loren
 

Roger

Member II
I'm curious what you come up with as well, since the upper bearing on my 32 is a bit wobbly. FYI, the upper rudder bearing plate was a custom casting from Elk Brass, who is long gone, so it's not easily replaceable.

-Roger
 

Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Thanks for the info

Christian,I've been wondering about our rudder as well. it seems to be a little sloppy so I intend to do the same when we haul out for a new bottom in January. Please post your findings. Rick
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
My appointment is tomorrow. Will report.

By the way, I think there is a simple test to reveal a condition like mine.

If you yank with your hand on a steering cable near the quadrant, the rudder post should not move out of column. Mine does, visibly.
 

Cory B

Sustaining Member
We had our lower bearing shimmed with bronze surprisingly affordably by a local boatyard. They did a good job. Our upper bearing was fine and needed no work, but the lower was all over over the place.

Another local boat yard a few years previously claimed that they would need to rebuild the rudder tube and put in a "proper" bearing (for multiple thousands of dollars). We passed until the next planned haulout at a different yard.

I think it was close to a 1/8" shim - it was alot. Its held up very well so far, the steering is smooth, and we no longer here a "clunk" when we tack.
 

Dan Callen

Contributing Member III
32-3 Steering

I know most of you are aware of this but there are two grease fittings on the rudder shaft....one upper which can be difficult to locate and one lower. It is critical to grease these at least annually, if not more often. I purchased my boat new and still own it. A year or two after purchase I felt a vibration under the auxiliary rudder cap behind the wheel. I did some research and found out about the two grease fittings and have started greasing... greased them annually ever since. I have had no rudder shaft problems since and my boat is a 1989 model. Hope this might help someone. Dan Callen Ericson32-3 Andiamo
 

Grizz

Grizz
Zert Fitting

Didn't know there was an upper Zerk fitting, but the previously supplied picture shows what looks to be the lower fitting. I'll check for the upper this weekend. Thanks. Thelonious%20rudder%20post.jpg
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Mystery Zerk

I will have to check next time I get a misguided desire to worm my way back into the lazaretto....
but I recall that there is indeed a damned-hard-to-access zerk on the forward side of the top casting, right up under the deck. I am referring to the casting with the flange and the four large bolts.

Loren
 

Slick470

Member III
Grease?

ok... what are people using for grease? Would automotive chassis lube work or is that heresy? I ask because I already have that in a grease gun for my truck.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Go with Super Lube

ok... what are people using for grease? Would automotive chassis lube work or is that heresy? I ask because I already have that in a grease gun for my truck.
A Teflon grease will work well below the waterline. That's what I used to lube my rudderpost, and that's what Catalina recommends on their boats. (I used to have a Catalina 30.) This is the stuff to get: http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=Super+Lube
 

Dan Callen

Contributing Member III
Upper zerk fitting

I will have to check next time I get a misguided desire to worm my way back into the lazaretto....
but I recall that there is indeed a damned-hard-to-access zerk on the forward side of the top casting, right up under the deck. I am referring to the casting with the flange and the four large bolts.

Loren

Loren- I can reach my upper zerk fitting by raising the port aft lazerette seat and feeling around under the large pulley that drives the rudder shaft. Since your boat is an Olson it may be a totally different situation. Good luck. Dan Callen Ericson32-3
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, there's nothing wrong with the bushing or the steering system.

Although impossible to see from the cockpit, the nuts on the top bushing housing bolts had come loose under the deck.

The entire bushing housing was moving. There were no lock washers on the nuts.

We added lock washers and tightened them up and the system is like new.

The rigger (Dylan in MDR) is an admirer of Ericsons adn said our 28 year old boat now hasa no more play than the new Catalina (Edson gear) he's currently assembling.

He thinks my top bushing is probably original. It has no zerk fitting. You grease it by removing the deck plate.

You can;t see my problem from the cockpit: the deck plate of the bushing didn't move, and the phillips heads looked tight.

Easy enough to tighten the nuts--if you have some play, it might not be the bushing at all.
 
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Rick R.

Contributing Partner
Well, there's nothing wrong with the bushing or the steering system.Although impossible to see from the cockpit, the nuts on the top bushing housing bolts had come loose under the deck. The entire bushing housing was moving. There were no lock washers on the nuts.We added lock washers and tightened them up and the system is like new. The rigger (Dylan in MDR) is an admirer of Ericsons adn said our 28 year old boat now hasa no more play than the new Catalina (Edson gear) he's currently assembling.He thinks my top bushing is probably original. It has no zerk fitting. You grease it by removing the deck plate.You can;t see my problem from the cockpit: the deck plate of the bushing didn't move, and the phillips heads looked tight. Easy enough to tighten the nuts--if you have some play, it might not be the bushing at all.
That's great news! I'll have to check that one tomorrow
 

mkollerjr

Member III
Blogs Author
re: zerks

My 1990 E38 has an upper and lower zerk. I doubt they have aver been greased. The upper zerk looks in Bristol condition. The lower zerk looks corroded shut. I'm going to get a grease gun and some Teflon grease and see about lubing them. Hopefully the lower one works. While I'm at it, I'm going to remove the deck plate and see why the rudder has about a 1/4 inch vertical play in it...

upper zerk.jpgIMG_1665.jpgrudder.jpg
 

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