E27 rudder stock damage question

Hello all,

I've read a lot on the forum so far about bent rudder stocks, but I haven't been able to find the exact information I am looking for.

We ran aground recently and fortunately made it out with only a jammed rudder. I jumped in the water, put a sail bag and line around the rudder just in case, and then dropped it in the water. The rudder was jammed against the hull. A friend had to hit the top of the stock with a hammer a few times before the rudder began to turn free and I could just pull and twist it out from under water. (The rudder floated, by the way; I've seen some back and forth about this.)

Now, the rudder stock came out with the brass bushing still on it near where the stock enters the glass. Until I saw a diagram of the rudder assembly found on this site, I thought that is how it's supposed to be.

The bushing is stuck on the stainless steel tube, and I am worried the metal is deformed so that even if I bend it back to the correct 90 degree angle it will still be stuck in the shaft and won't turn freely.

My question is:
How did the bushing function originally? Was it affixed in the bottom of the rudder shaft somehow and it ripped out when I dropped the rudder? Was it just tightly put into place without any material holding it in?

This was a really tragic incident, as I had just spent about $1000 dollars (parts and labor add up, even though I did it myself, as everyone knows) fixing the spreaders with some reinforcing doubler plates, a spreader bar, and new spreaders fabricated by Ballenger Spars. We had fresh running rigging, everything looked great, then we came out the south entrance of the Marina with a southerly wind and a strong incoming tide and the motor wouldn't start. By the time it was obvious that the motor option was no good, there was no room to maneuver and we drifted into the lee shore.

Any ideas about how to get back on the water cheaply? I've called Foss Foam and gotten a quote. It just seems too expensive to get a new rudder at this point. I have also been doing a big internet search and calling up lots of boat yards and salvage places to find a used one. Any pointers at all appreciated. So far it looks like finding a needle in a hay stack.

I'm located in Berkeley, CA.

another source

I cruised the local Boater's Resale Shop in Kemah Saturday and noticed that they have a rudder marked "Ericson-27" for sale. It looks like your picture, and appears to be in good condition.

I have no connection to the rudder or the shop: http://www.boatersresaleshopoftexas.com/

My goodness! Thanks for the pointer. I'll be giving them a call ASAP. It was so kind of you to post that.

adamb said:

Hello all,

Any ideas about how to get back on the water cheaply? I've called Foss Foam and gotten a quote. It just seems too expensive to get a new rudder at this point. I have also been doing a big internet search and calling up lots of boat yards and salvage places to find a used one. Any pointers at all appreciated. So far it looks like finding a needle in a hay stack.

I'm located in Berkeley, CA.

Click to expand...

Try calling The Sailboat Junkyard. Ask for Dan 310-795-8978 dantheboatman@aol.com Looks like The site store is closed for maintenance. http://www.sailboatjunkyard.com

They are in Long Beach, CA. Hopefully still in business. Dan does most of his business demolishing sailboats for the lead, but also had quite a few parts and sails for sale. I remember seeing lot's of E-27 stuff like companion way ladders and hatches at his junk yard. He used to place a lot of ads on Craigslist. Good luck!!

Sailboat JunkYard Location Map attached:

Has Dan Moved?

Jeff Asbury said:

Try calling The Sailboat Junkyard. Ask for Dan 310-795-8978 dantheboatman@aol.com Looks like The site store is closed for maintenance. http://www.sailboatjunkyard.com

They are in Long Beach, CA. Hopefully still in business. Dan does most of his business demolishing sailboats for the lead, but also had quite a few parts and sails for sale. I remember seeing lot's of E-27 stuff like companion way ladders and hatches at his junk yard. He used to place a lot of ads on Craigslist. Good luck!!

Sailboat JunkYard Location Map attached:

Click to expand...

I think Dan's contact information is the same, but I am wondering if maybe he has moved? His Craigslist ads now specify "Gardena" in the Title. Maybe he has moved to a bigger site?

toddbrsd said:

I think Dan's contact information is the same, but I am wondering if maybe he has moved? His Craigslist ads now specify "Gardena" in the Title. Maybe he has moved to a bigger site?

Click to expand...

Yes he indeed moved to Gardena. Just talked to him on the phone. He said to e-mail a photo of the rudder with the diameter of the post and he would check the rudders he has.He said he has not had a E-27 go through his yard recently and is not sure what the rudder looks like, but he has a couple rudders in the yard. Hope this helps.

Dan's e-mail dantheboatman@aol.com

Phone: 310-795-8978

+1 for Dan the boatman. I ordered a new rudder head and tiller fork from him and he was super helpful. He was also going to get a mast all packaged up and ready to send up to Portland for me, that is until I figured out how to fix mine.

Thanks everyone for your time and help. I gave Dan a call who said he doesn't have one in right now but sometimes does. I'm going to send him some pictures and specs by e-mail just in case he has something that might work.

That place in Texas didn't have it but thanks again, Gary, for the recommendation.

Search continues...

You know, if, IF I had this problem, I would make the rudder. According to my funny papers, the 27', and 29' rudders are basically identical. That being the case, mine is no more than 2" stainless pipe, making it 2 3/8" O.D. Tig welding on the tabs that go internally, the rest is a matter of a little artful foam and glass work. You already have the old one for the dimensions. I can hear the great wailing, and gnashing of teeth now, but there is no way that it could be that complicated, especially with a pattern. And a boat that is not class racing, a little off fairing here and there would be no biggee. And how many times have you seen anybody actually measure a rudder?..

*wailing and gnashing teeth*

Aw man. O.K., here's another thought. Split the rudder on its seams, cut the post out, and have a new one welded in. Then glass the sides back together. But, I don't know man. I have not specifically built an Ericson rudder, but we mostly built one for an Island Packet a few months back, even on the boat it wasn't that big a deal. We use this foam here on the yard that looks little more than 1/2" foam like goes on the side of a house, (not exactly), epoxy in the voids, and glass it up. Man, you couldn't shoot a 30-06 bullet through it. But even the tube would be the easiest part. A reasonably competent welder could throw together that post and associated tabs in thirty minutes. And it would be brand new completely. And more than likely at half the price. Shoot, DO NOT go to some "boat shop". Round up some 2 inch S.S. pipe, and take it to any welding shop. You can tig, mig, OR stick it.

OK, I'll be quiet now.

There's no way around the fact that repairing a wrecked rudder is going to be a major investment in time or money; it's a major safety item.

You can solve this problem quickly, cheaply, solidly - pick any two.

Foss is quick and solid but not cheap (though I would argue it is the cheapest for how quick and solid the result will be).
A used rudder is cheap and solid but not quick as you'll have to hunt around and wait for one to turn up.
Refabbing is cheap and quick, assuming you have the time, but may not be solid.

I'm afraid this is going to be a "choose your poison" situation.

I was faced with water intrusion issues on my E29 rudder. I did the "backyard" construction for a replacement. The profile was based roughly on a sketch I received from a West coast company that builds rudders. The foil was picked after some research. http://home.comcast.net/~e29290/rudder.pdf , If you have the space, time, and some handiness, building a new rudder is not out of reach. If I remember correctly, the cost for the materials was about 1/3 of the price I was quoted for a whole new one.

Good Luck

In case you are tempted to rebuild yours, here's some more moral support in the form of my rudder rebuild:

http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/rudder/rudder-intro.html

It's all doable - just that three sided triangle of time/skill/money - seems like two of the three are all that's usually available....

Emerald, I have read this about your rudder repair a couple of times. And the word that comes to mind is, dedicated! I admire this rebuild on so many levels, which is exactly the project I had in my mind when I suggest building one. After that, a 29' rudder would be a cake walk.

Now, I have been accused of having a couple of thrown breakers in my panel, but I've been in several rudders, and unless it's a super competition foil, or some mysterious "art form" that is just not computing, a simple E29 rudder could be built in the living room more or less..

Thanks - it was actually a pretty fun project, and full of many twists to keep it interesting. A few dark 'n stormies didn't hurt either. I'd do it again in a heart beat!

Thanks missalot and Emerald for posting descriptions of your projects. Very, very useful.

Missalot, was it easy enough to procure the SS pipe? Where's the best place to look for that?

adamb - I sent you a private message

This may be obvious: The loads on rudders are very high. If your rolling it yourself I would advise having a known designer specify the foam and layup schedule, and might as well spec the rudder tube and structure. Having lost a rudder a 700 miles from Hawaii I would not skimp on getting this right. To get some sense of the rudder loads and rudder schedules you can find discussion on the sfbaysss.org sight regarding emergency rudders.

Brian
s/v redsky