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1976 32 Bilge - automatic bilge pump ideas

scourge

Member II
Hi All,
I have a 1976 32. As other owners may know, and I don't know if it is an 'Ericson' thing, the bilge on the 32 is only
about 6 inches deep and and about 6 inches wide and shallows up at the forward end. Really not much of a bilge.
My question is around adding an automatic bilge pump.
I have just installed a Lewmar ProFish FF 700 windlass and Manson Supreme 25lb anchor to the bow of my boat. With this came the requisite hole in the deck for the chain and rode to pass through. Up until now, I have not had an automatic bilge pump in place. But now, with the hole in the deck, the question of water entering the bilge is now a reality.
I can add one, with a float switch, but my question/concern is tying the discharge of the pump to the existing Whale pump that is installed in the cockpit. I thought I had read somewhere that you shouldn't put a 'check valve' in the discharge of a bilge pump.
I want to tie into the existing discharge, but how do I keep the discharge from the manual pump from coming back into the bilge through the automatic bilge pump or vice versa? I don't get a lot of water in the bilge, but now with the hole and the occasional rain shower or storm, I'm anticipating more than before, and I want to ensure that water is pumped out.
Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
 

jarnold67

Member II
Maybe this will help you...

When I picked my E26, the bilge pump was a non-functioning manual Whale Gusher pump. While I don't get that much water in the bilge, I did want to install an electric pump but I didn't want to drill any more holes in the hull, and the TAFG didn't leave me much room to run a second bilge hose. So where the bilge drain hole comes out of the bilge, by the engine, I installed a jumper circuit for a Jacobson 12v pump. Then, to keep from having that recirculation concern that you mentioned, I installed two valves to plumb in either the manual or electric pump. A switch for the electric pump was added to the panel, and I replaced the non-functioning manual pump.

By the way, float switches can be a lively topic. But for the record, I don't have a float switch for two reasons - the first is that the TAFG doesn't give me an adequate clearance for a proper installation, and second I don't have a significant problem with taking on water, so I don't see the need. By the way, my boat is in a slip on a river that at high tide give me about 3 feet of clearance to the bottom, and I close my through-hulls when I leave.

Good luck,
John

"S/V Pickle" - 1985 E26
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
I think that the cost of a second through-hull fitting is probably less than the cost of a check valve... And quite easy to install. Although my manual pump does have a check valve on the inlet.

And they can be good way to meet the neighbors, too. Last year, I spent a few days on a Hunter, on which for some reason, they installed the automatic bilge pump outlet halfway up the side on the starboard beam. If you tie-up on the starboard side, it squirts right out on the dock.:confused: This particular boat was dripping a bit too much from the stuffing box, and the correct wrench to tighten it was not on board, so the pump was going on hourly.

"Hey, your boat just pee'ed on my leg!" :devil:
 
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Dave N

Member III
The bilge on my '79 35 is probably similar. I have an electric w/float switch in addition to the strainer for the manual pump. It would take a lot of water to activate the switch and even then the pump will never get the bilge dry. Even with a check valve on the pump hose there would be some water running back in. The last thing I want is water sloshing around when we are well heeled over. My solution, while it leaves a lot to be desired, is a milk jug and a turkey baster. I can get it very dry. It is a part of my weekly routine and while it is a pain, it works for me.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Same setup in my '69 32.

I've thought about teeing a lower bilge pump discharge into the highest possible point in the sink drain.

Problem is, the bilge is so shallow it doesn't hold that much water to begin with, and the run from the lowest point in the bilge to any possible discharge point is so long that the water left in the hose after pumping will drain back into the bilge and be meaningful.

So I have no pump there. But I do have a tiny centrifugal pump in the engine bilge which vents under the stern. It also has the backwash problem but there is more often stuff in that bilge that needs to be pumped.
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
But I do have a tiny centrifugal pump in the engine bilge which vents under the stern. It also has the backwash problem but there is more often stuff in that bilge that needs to be pumped.

If you are referring to the pan below the engine, I believe an overboard discharge pump in that pan is technically illegal. The reason being that pan is meant to capture any oil or fuel that may leak from the engine and keep it from entering the bilge and being pumped overboard. A pump in that pan could discharge fuel or oil overboard.

I don't know about the E32, but on my E30+ that pan is completely separate from the bilge. There was a small Rule pump in that pan when I got the boat and there was always water in that pan. When I learned that there should not be a pump in there I started to investigate why there was always water in the pan. I discovered the bilge pump hose from the pump in the main saloon was routed through that pan and had a hole in it; any time the pump in the main saloon turned on it would empty some water into the pan under the engine. I remedied the problem by replacing the defective hose and rerouting it. I also repacked the stuffing box and replaced the Pedro hose connecting the stuffing box to the shaft log, which was where the excessive water was getting into the bilge in the first place.
 
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tenders

Innocent Bystander
Well, I'll have to take the jail time, I guess, because there is always water there from the shaft seal and any little drip that sneaks in from the aft third of the boat's entire surface area. I would consider myself negligent to keep the boat on a mooring as I do without a bilge pump there. The boat's been surveyed and insured many times over 43 years, I presume always with this setup.

I'm not sure what I have is a "pan" below the engine as you refer to. It's just the aft part of the bilge. A pan might be some sort of a molded tray between the bilge and the engine to contain anything that might leak out of the engine? Good idea, and clearly not something that should be routed overboard, but not part of my boat's design.

Do they have the internet in jail? Gosh, maybe many of us are already posting from the pokey for having their bilge pumps in inappropriate places.
 

eknebel

Member III
I believe the legal issues start only if the boat discharges oil or gas into the water. Having a pump in the engine sump increases that risk, so oil adsorbing pad(s) in the engine sump are a good idea. It is a good idea to have pads anyway, which I learned the hard way when a flared copper tubing failed, leaking diesel into the bildge. Not much pumped out, ie a smalll sheen, about the size that is unfortunately seen at fuel docks. Bildge cleanup was one of the least favorite chores I have performed.
Though not exciting, bildge pump installation is important, remember that 90% of boats sink at docks or moorings, many drip by drip.
 

scourge

Member II
1976 32 Bilge - automatic bilge pump ideas

Am I over-complicating things by thinking that I should be concerned with the amount of water that will come in through the opening in the deck where the chain/rode pass through? Maybe it won't be that much. I too stated that I don't get a lot of
water in the bilge now, generally just what comes in from the stuffing box. I just had a thought. Maybe if I took a piece of plastic, like from a milk jug and cut a circle out with a slot in it to cover the hole where the rode passes through, that would keep much of the water out when it rains and would help to keep water out on those times when I take waves over the bow. What do you think?
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
"The hole" ought to have a fitting that keeps most of the water out - called a deck pipe. I don't know how big your hole is, but Defender has had a small deck pipe on sale for less than $20 this summer. Ultimately, the solution to that water flow should be that the chain locker has its own drain, above the water line.
 

scourge

Member II
Not an actual chain locker 1976 32 Bilge

First, with a Lewmar Horizontal Pro-Fish windlass, the chain/rode passes around the windlass and directly through
the hull directly below the windlass, so there is no pipe for it to pass through to limit water intake.
Secondly, on a 32, there is no chain locker. There is no special place for the chain/rode to fall into that that can drain
through an external drain.
What I am using is the locker forward of the vee-berth. I had the windlass professionally installed, I didn't do it myself and
the boat yard did not find anything wrong with where the chain/rode was going to be stored. The problem is that it drains directly down into the bilge from the bow of the boat.

Also, I wasn't thinking about putting another thru-hull in.

My manual bilge pump discharges under the stern close to the exhaust. On the 76 32 the stern rises and is a reverse transom, so there is clearance between the exhaust/ bilge discharge and the water level.
I was thinking of putting a tee in the existing hose close to where it discharges thru the hull and tie in the discharge of an automatic bilge pump (if I put one in) and putting a check-valve closer to the pump. This would keep water in the line that has been pumped out of the bilge from coming back into the bilge. Yes, it would sit in the line, but I can't see that as a problem.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 

eknebel

Member III
Also, I wasn't thinking about putting another thru-hull in.

Thoughts? Suggestions?[/QUOTE]

a small thru hull well above waterline is often used for anchor rode lockers, some are no more than 3/8 inch metal pipes epoxied thru the hull, and trimmed flush on the exterior.
 

scourge

Member II
Anchor Locker

[a small thru hull well above waterline is often used for anchor rode lockers, some are no more than 3/8 inch metal pipes epoxied thru the hull, and trimmed flush on the exterior. ]

As I stated earlier, the 32 doesn't have a dedicated anchor locker, that is 'blocked off' and from which a thru hull can be 'cut' to ensure that all waters drains out through it. There is a space, forward of the vee berth that is available
for storage. There are two doors that open from the vee-berth to this 'locker'. As it currently stands, without any modifications, there is no way to ensure that any water drains out through a 'Thru hull'. This locker is right at the bow and any water that enters through the opening where the rode/chain pass through will drain down, below the vee-berth, below the fresh water tank and directly into the bilge. The overflow for the fresh water tank is high in this space and if you overfill the fresh water tank, the overflow drains out of the hose and goes directly into the bilge as well.
 

Gumdoc

Member I
Hi, I have a '72 Ericson 32. When I got her there was a rule pump and float switch in the bilge. It was definitely needed. If it weren't on auto the bilge would fill in a few days due to a leaking stuffing box. I had a dripless installed last year but still appreciate the auto bilge. It drains through a 3/4" ? hose that runs under the table seat, past the batteries at the "nav station" and exits through a finished hole in the stern, well above the water line. When it "pees" I can hear it anywhere on the boat. The auto/manual switch is just outside of the battery location. Very handy to see that it is set on auto. The hose is rather long so after running, ten feet of hose water reenters the bilge. I wanted the bilge dry to prevent mold. I installed a check valve just after the pump. Works great. My gully washer pump is totally separate and isolated. Since my through hull for my depth sounder (which I pull every time I sail and replace with a plug) drains into the bilge, as also does sink overflow and rain from my chain locker and the water from my ice box, I like the auto feature of the bilge pump. If you would like pictures, I'll take them for you. John
 
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mherrcat

Contributing Partner
I installed a check valve just after the pump.

I recently replaced a small Rule automatic pump and the instructions said a check valve should not be installed, but did not give a reason. There was a check valve already in the line so I removed it. Anyone know why a check valve should not be installed? The only reason I could think of would have to do with back pressure affecting the performance of the pump.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I recently replaced a small Rule automatic pump and the instructions said a check valve should not be installed, but did not give a reason. There was a check valve already in the line so I removed it. Anyone know why a check valve should not be installed? The only reason I could think of would have to do with back pressure affecting the performance of the pump.

Those centrifugal pumps will slow their output easily if there's Any thing in the dischage line to impede the flow. And then there's the record of check valves sticking in any position from closed to open. Even the ribbing in some types of hose will reduce the output from a "Rule" pump.

Given that they will even "air lock" from a big-enough amount of air in the discharge line when there are sections with water laying in them, I would generally advise staying with a chamber-type of pump like the Jabsco ones that Ericson put in all of their boats in the mid-late 80's. They are a positive-displacement pump and also will not allow back syphoning.

Loren
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Mine had a relatively new rule pump when I bought it, so I just cleaned it up and kept it. But the float switch was stuck and inoperable. I cleaned it up and then it worked OK. This week, I found that it was stuck again. Gummed up with nameless bilge stuff I guess. A bit of an achilles heel there.
 

Ensenada Crab

Member I
Gravity Is Your Friend, When Pumping Bilges

I recently replaced a small Rule automatic pump and the instructions said a check valve should not be installed, but did not give a reason. There was a check valve already in the line so I removed it. Anyone know why a check valve should not be installed? The only reason I could think of would have to do with back pressure affecting the performance of the pump.

so i recently had issues with the valves on the cockpit drains on my 32-2. on the port side, there just wasn't room to put in an elbow above the valve, so the mechanic installed a flexible hose instead. Sadly, the bit of flexible hose he installed above the valve is so long that it is far higher than much of the hose coming from the aft cockpit scuppers which run under the fuel tank--which results in water sitting in the hose between the aft scuppers and hose above the valve attached to the through hull.

water runs down hill and payday is Friday--the plumbers credo!

so the same gravitas applies to the bilge lines. rather than have them gradually rise from the bilge to where they exit the stern above the waterline, they should be raised above the exit points in the hull very close to the forward end of the engine compartment. so MOST of the water left in the line after pumping the bilge, drains naturally out thru the stern, not back into the bilge.

just my 2 cents. . . .
 
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