1984 Ericson 35 III bulkhead and mast step

I'm a new member and presently searching for a sailboat in the 35' range. I've located a 1984 Ericson III which seems to need a lot of TLC, but my surveyor found that the bulkhead which separates the salon and head, and the ajoining bulkhead on the opposite side of the salon were both pulled loose from the tabbing at the bottom where it joined the fiberglass in the bilge area. The wooden bulkheads didn't seem to be rotten, and the chain plate attachments were sound. Another bulkhead just in front of the nav station was also loose. The mast step was also slightly compressed and bulging on the sides as though someone had overtightened the rigging at one point. My question is... does anyone know if the center cross stringer which the mast rests on is hollow, or is there wood under the glass? What structural issues are involved in the bulkhead tabbing and can it be reliably repaired? Costs?

Any help appreciated!

Can't believe no one has responded. So I will... At the very least it will put back on the "new" post page. We have e35II and have replaced the bulkheads on either side because of rot where chain plates attach. Pull the covers off a check there, it is a common problem for that age. We placed the wood compression post because I butchered it trying to get it out. With the boat in a cradle it still required a 10# maul together it out. The overhead dropped 3/4". On our model boat the mast steps on the coach deck. I have no idea about what the structure is like under the floor. Can't believe it is hollow. I know there are several e35III owners here. Perhaps they are out sailing. There is nothing on our boat tat is not repairable. We knew we had soggy decks and would need to replace all electrical and plumbing. I may not be fast but nI do all my own work. Even though it is taking 3 times longer, we do it again.

Mast step on E-35' III

Thanks Lucky Dog,

I appreciate the input. As you probably know the mast step on the 35' III looks like a 2x10" fiberglassed board, about 24" long and contoured to the bottom of the bilge area. It lays on its edge and there are 3 or them in a row with a few inches of space between them. They are all glassed in to the bottom. There is a thick piece of metal plate laying across all three of the cross pieces with the mast resting on the center one. The center piece is the one that seems to be "crushed down". They are all glass covered, but it seems I read somewhere that the "grid" system in Ericson boats are actually foam filled fiberglass. The foam would just give shape to the glass while it cured, so I'm thinking it might be hollow, in which case might be easier repaired by filling with resin. If anyone has any experience with this kind of problem, I'd appreciate any advice. Also Lucky Dog, when you replaced the bulkheads were they in contact with the bottom of the boat as though they had pressure pushing them down, or was there any space between the bulkhead and the bottom when you glassed them in? My boat seems to have a small amount of space between the bulkhead and the bottom of the boat. In other words it looks like it has lifted away from the bottom by a small amount, less than an inch. Also, has anyone ever replace a steering pedestal on this boat? Mine has a chunk broken off where it bolts in to the floor.

Thanks again,
Av8or

This doesn't speak directly to your questions, but you might find this thread on E-35-3 mast support repair interesting:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?2356-E35-or-E35-3-Grid-Beam-Cracking


Post #38 is from a former Ericson engineer.

I don't know for sure but I suspect the grid beams would have to be cored to save construction expense and weight.

You don't want the bulkheads to come all the way down to the hull. I don't know how the 1980s Ericson bulkheads were tabbed originally, but current practice is to leave a gap around the bulkhead edge, where it would meet the hull, and press closed cell foam into the gap. Next, the foamed edge is filleted and then tabbed.

Thanks PDX

It would seem to make sense that it would be cored with something, but seems I read it might be foam. Knowing which might lead to a simpler way of repairing the damage. The thread you sent shows the three cross members which support the mast, however, mine isn't cracked, just "crushed down" a little bit. Would you happen to know if the hull liner could have broken away from the hull where it is glued in? Is this very common?

Thanks, Av8or

Av8or said:

Thanks PDX

It would seem to make sense that it would be cored with something, but seems I read it might be foam. Knowing which might lead to a simpler way of repairing the damage. The thread you sent shows the three cross members which support the mast, however, mine isn't cracked, just "crushed down" a little bit. Would you happen to know if the hull liner could have broken away from the hull where it is glued in? Is this very common?

Thanks, Av8or

Click to expand...

According to the former Ericson engineer's post, #38, if I understand it correctly , the center beam was wooden cored. He says there were some voids between the glass and wood on some of the boats. It is possible yours got crushed down because of a void. In any case, whether wooden core or foam core, the repair is the same--build up the outside glass surface to its original size. The main fear with a wooden core is rot. If your beam was never cracked, this seems unlikely.

As to a TAFG grid pulling away from the hull, I don't know whether it happens. Looking closely at the photos in post #3 from that thread, it appears the cross members were tabbed to the hull rather than simply glued to it. On the other hand the surveyor mentioned the tabbing on surrounding bulkheads coming loose so I guess its possible. Any chance you can get on the boat again and take pictures? And did the surveyor have an opinion and what had happened and what the repair would involve?

Looking up threads about chain plates...at my wife's niece graduation, time to waste. I saw this. CaptDan Principal PartnerJoin DateDec 2004LocationEl Sobrante, CAPosts359Blog Entries1

gareth harris said:

I have only just noticed this thread; it is one of The other thing I have not seen anyone else mention is the importance of not fitting the plywood right up to the hull, instead having a small piece of foam in between. Hi Gareth,That's a good point, but I'd offer this elaboration:From what I can determine from my vintage E35, (1977) the bulkhead corners 'floated' between the hull via the fiberglass tabbing. In other words they were not bonded 'tight' in those places. I assume the same is true for the upper edges, but can't say for certain.Obviously this was done for the very reason you say - to allow the units to 'work' in a seaway without creating stress. Seems to me that would be accomodated by simply duplicating the cloth tabbing, making sure about 1/2" of space is allowed between the bulkhead (or scarfed piece) and the inner section of the hull. I'm not sure a piece of foam is necessary, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea either.For what it's worth.Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

Click to expand...

Lucky Dog,

You know.....after thinking about it, your explanation sounds very logical to me. Seems to me the bulkheads were never meant to be a major load bearing area since a thin 3" strip of fiberglass bonded to the bottom of a piece of wood would never hold up to very much, although the chainplates are exerting an upward force, pulling away from the floor. Maybe they are meant to "float" between the glass tabs.

Thanks again

Av8or

Av8or-

When we bought our 1984 35-3, we had a "stressed" middle stringer under the mast step. It appears it was originally cored with wood, but a previous owner had modified it in such a way that it allowed bilge water to get it, and rot out much of the wood. With the mast out, I thru-bolted two thick aluminum plates through the stringer, and coated generously with thickened epoxy. It was a pretty easy fix and has held up well.

As far as loose bulkheads go, the one between the head and the salon should NOT be floating. That is the one bulkhead in the boat which has chainplates attached to it, and needs to be firmly attached to the hull/grid. I know ours is well glassed in (multiple layers). As far as the other bulkheads go, they are far less important structurally, but I believe they are all glassed in on our boat.

And with regards to the possibility that the TAFG might have detached from the hull, I haven't heard of that happening to an Ericson, but I suppose its possible (I know it happens to other boats with similar systems), and might explain all the bulkhead problems. I'd be little wary about the boat if that is the case.

Also, there are some significant construction differences between the 35-2's and 35-3s (triaxial grid, mast step, keel attachment), so what applies to one may not apply to the other.

Good luck with your boat search, the 35-3s are very nice sailing boats.

In the downloads section on the forums page, there is an area, with pictures, on Ericson boat construction. It appears to be from the 1970s. It is pretty evident that the bulkheads were all cut to a standard shape on a jig, then mounted to the boat sub-floor, which was then installed (together with the fastened bulkheads) in the boat. The deck was installed later. The likelihood of a perfect fit, with this mass production technique, is remote. So the bulkheads were deliberately undercut. The bulkheads were then tabbed over the gap. On my boat the gap was as much as an inch in places. I suspect this is what was meant by "floating" in the earlier post.

This construction technique had a side benefit (in addition to mass production cost savings). If a bulkhead's edge is bonded directly to the hull it can create a hardspot on the hull's outside surface, which can lead to cracking and ultimately weakness. But the technique of just wetting a strip of fiberglass tabbing and letting it drape is not ideal. Better by far is to create a fillet on both edges and then tab over it. You need the foam wedged into the bulkhead edge to support the fillet--otherwise it will just push its way back into the bulkhead's edge and create a hardspot.

I disagree strongly with the idea that bulkhead flexibility is of some benefit in a seaway. On many 1970s Ericsons the bulkheads are holding the rigs. So long as you take care of the hardspot problem, the stiffer and stronger the bulkhead installation the better.