Good source for a budget gennaker?

Hey Folks -

I got a set of quotes on a Reacher and a Gennaker from North Sails, and I was wondering if there are other options of decent quality out there?

Here is an option:

There are used sail outlets - you can do a search for them online, but down here in Southern California we have Minneys Yacht Surplus - and look through their inventory, finding something close to the dimensions you need. Then take the sail to your local loft and have it sized down to fit your boat.

Or, talk to your loft representative. They have many customers who buy new sails and need to get rid of the old ones. They may have a line on something that may be suitable.

I'm racing on an older Beneteau/Frers 50 and we need to outfit this boat with everything from sails to galley for off shore racing. While we are buying new sails for our primary main, headsail, jib and spinnakers, we are looking used sails to fill the gaps in the inventory. We picked up a nylon 'drifter' for $400 that works perfectly for its intended purpose. In another instance, we picked up a lightly used carbon 'jib top' for $500 and had the loft resize it for our boat at a charge of $150.00. We bought the drifter from Minneys and our Quantum rep turned us on to the jib top. The point is, often there is life left in the sails, especially if they are not sails that are used day in and day out.

The cost of new sails is a shocker but the performance value cannot be underestimated.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

That's a really good approach - the sails I'm looking for kind of need to be new, as we're going to get a local sponsor to pay for it and put their logo on it. I've heard that pretty much all american sail makers have their sails made overseas; which leads me to wonder if there's much variation in quality and price...?

Most of the membrane sails are made in Malaysia. I don't know where the kites are built. Our North 3DL was built in Nevada but North's primary build site is Sri Lanka. As far as I'm aware, most of the sail makers buy their fabric from the same places. Seth is more of an expert on that than I am. I've just been really into it recently because of the sail purchases we're making right now to gear out 'Airwaves', the 50 I'm racing on. We bought a new North #1 last month for around $12,000.00. We're putting the deposit down on a Quantum Symmetrical kite (S-2) this week for delivery by the end of next month. Buying sails is fun as long as you're spending somebody else's money

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Bought mine on eBay

Hey, that's where I bought my boat too!

It was never used, from a Morgan 34 paid $700. You just have to keep looking, they don't need to be an exact fit like a main

<<<<You can see it in the picture on the left<<<

Hi Andrew,

you can try Dave at Santa Cruz Sails scsails@cruzio.com they build quality sails right here in the US. They built an asymmetrical for my E27 that I am happy with.

What's the logo going to be on your spinnaker?

Last I checked (Nov. '11), Quantum is building their sails in the U.S.

David,

A very good friend of mine just opened up a new Quantum loft here in Long Beach. At least for the membrane sails, they get their sail panels from the same place that Ullman and E/P do - some manufacturer in Malaysia. Its possible they are putting together the dacron sails here, but the laminates are overseas projects.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

The economics of sail making are sometimes even stranger than you think they are....
I know of local lofts (representing big names) that sell plain old dacron crosscut sails that have the panels cut elsewhere/overseas and then some of the finishing or assembly is done locally. These local guys are experienced sailmakers, I should add.
They do repairs and do make some small dac sails in-house.
They are quite capable of building a large sail, but it's too expensive...

Given the widespread use of similar software for the panel cutting machines, I would not be afraid to buy a budget dacron sail from one of the large overseas builders like Lee Sails. I mention them only because I have known local reps for them for going on 20 years and they deliver a good sturdy product for the $.

Opinion: It isn't just the production cost, but also the heavy promotional expense of some of the biggest names that drives their retail cost, IMHO.
And of course, YMMV.


LB

Hi Jim,

this is interesting. Is it that the material they are using for the laminates is manufactured overseas and then assembled here, or is the material manufactured overseas for the laminates and also turned into a sail overseas? As I was looking for a loft this past fall to build a new yankee, I wanted to have a sail built in the U.S. - I'm a believer in putting my money where my mouth is - I don't like all our manufacturing going to China etc., so I try to buy local, even if it costs me a few bucks more. I also put value into the sailmaker personally measuring and fitting the sail, and I must say that I feel it was worth the extra money over mail ordering - I ended up with a different cut than i was anticipating, and the boat is significantly faster and sails better now. So, back to build location. My local Quantum rep. in Annapolis told me that their sails, and I understood it to be all Quantum sails, were built at a central loft in, if I remember correctly, Michigan. We were, of course, talking Dacron since I cruise instead of race. Did this change, or is it just all Dacron sails?

US Sails

Tom Barry of Sail Technologies http://www.sail-tech.com/ builds laminate sails here in St. Petersburg, FL. He built a 135% dacron genny for me and did a great job. His prices are very reasonable. I will buy more sails from him. I've also had a good experience with Mack Sails who do all their work here in the US.

We're buying sails for the Frers from both Quantum and North. We had the #1 3DL built by North and I understand they did it in Nevada. For the 3DL's, North doesn't build with panels, they lay out on a big mold. Our service tech from the local North loft is up there at the Nevada factory right now learning the ropes. Our Quantum main is built with panels of the carbon/kevlar. We know because it was built without reef points and we've been consulting on whether we can add reef points or have to have a new sail built out.

Its pretty interesting stuff. I've been inundated with all sorts of information about sails. Funny thing - when you're campaigning a big boat for the off shore races, sail makers lay down in traffic to get your business. I bought a couple of North Sails for Voice of Reason last year. I thought I paid a lot for our genoa - a little over $4k. I figured the price would be at least twice that for the big genoa for Airwaves. Boy was I wrong. It was THREE times the cost. Buying 5 new sails in preparation for Transpac is going to cost nearly $50k, which is more than the owners paid for the boat.

We're also going with an Inmarsat. I've been involved in the electronics/communication aspect too. That's an eye opener. It reminds me how happy I am with my little 1970 Ericson 32.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Mark F said:

Hi Andrew,

you can try Dave at Santa Cruz Sails scsails@cruzio.com they build quality sails right here in the US. They built an asymmetrical for my E27 that I am happy with.

What's the logo going to be on your spinnaker?

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Thanks Mark, I'll shoot him an email.

The logo is going to be for a local brewery : )

>The logo is going to be for a local brewery : )

Nice...

Andrew Means said:

The logo is going to be for a local brewery : )

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What a great sponsor! I wanna crew for you!

U S Lofts

These aren't budget lofts , but they're quality and US built. You can contact Kame Richards at Pineapple here in Alameda. My chute he build in 83', I just got a 3rd place with it. http://www.pineapplesails.com/

Carol Hasse at Port Townsend Sails builds beautiful sails http://www.porttownsendsails.com/ .. tell her Greg from Island Girl says hey

I bought a Quantum last year, it was built in South Africa .. who knows unless they're sewing them on the floor of your loft

Happy shopping, Greg

Sail-Thec

beachologist said:

Tom Barry of Sail Technologies http://www.sail-tech.com/ builds laminate sails here in St. Petersburg, FL. He built a 135% dacron genny for me and did a great job. His prices are very reasonable. I will buy more sails from him. I've also had a good experience with Mack Sails who do all their work here in the US.

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BEWARE of Tom Barry and Sail Tech.
Purchased a furlering Genoa from them. The 28'2" luff measured 30 feet.
Took an Act of GOD to get my money back. False Advertising, compounded by B. S., mote B. S., and still more B. S.
I will never trust him again.

Quantum Fusion M Laminate

Hi David,

I ordered a new Q Fusion M Laminate #1 genoa a couple of weeks ago from the Annapolis loft and it is being made in Michigan.

Mark