1980 Ericson 30 Questions and Advice

Good Morning Everyone,

I have the opportunity to take possession of a 1980 Ericson 30 for the tremendous price of free and save the boat from being cut up. The boat needs work I will admit. It has sat on the lot at the marina where I have my Lancer 25 stored. I am looking at a 2 year project to get this boat back to working order with replacing what has been pilfered off the boat and getting everything in working order. I have joined the ericsonyachts.org site and have access to the links, resources, and documents, but I was wondering if anyone out there might have pictures that they could share of what is supposed to be where so I could figure out what I need to replace. I have read the adventures of the owner out in California on Narrow Escape who had a bit of an adventure with the whole inboard/outboard choices. I am guessing that the inboard is an Atomic 4, but I am not sure. Could someone clarify or tell me how to find out. The literature from ericsonyachts.org says that it is a 16 hp Universal diesel. Does that mean that it is an Atomic 4? It was recommended that I spin the crankshaft to make sure that the engine is no rusted or seized up. This is my first experience with inboards so any advice on this would be appreciated. My fall back is that I just purchased a new outboard for my Lancer last year and even if the inboard is worthless I could put a mounting bracket on the Ericson mount the outboard and go from there.

Any help or advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I have looked the keel, hull, and deck over quite well and can't find any evidence of cracks or stress that worry me. I do know this boat while in need of some TLC would be a step up from the Lancer in terms of space and amenities and I think this will work, but am always interested in others' opinions.

Here are two links to pages I have put up of pictures that I have taken if this helps. I know that two winches in the cockpit have disappeared, the batteries are gone, two instruments from the bulkhead have jumped overboard. Not sure where the fuel source for the galley stove would be (I do know there is a real debate of alcohol stoves if this is indeed an alcohol stove). Not sure where the fuel tank is because I am figuring that needs drained as well as the holding tank and every other tank to start fresh. Pictures of where this stuff is would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.

Patrick McGough

http://www.pmcitconsulting.com/ericson/04112012.html
http://www.pmcitconsulting.com/ericson/04072012.html

At the risk of sounding flippant, I'd let them cut it up...

For the amount of time and money it would take to get that boat in shape you could buy a similar model with all it's equipment and it wouldn't smell bad for years.

But to continue, based on what I saw in the photos that boat looks like an early 30+. I don't think the 30 had a double spreader mast. The fuel tank is under the hot water heater, and judging from the pictures you can pretty much count on having to replace it. The engine is a Universal diesel, but it does not look like the M18 that is in my 30+; it may be an earlier model.

Basically from what I can see you are going to have to gut that boat and rebuild it from the hull up. I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done...

Patrick,

The engine looks identical to the 16 hp Universal diesel engine, model 5416, on our boat. I agree with Mark in the previous post that this boat looks really rough. Everything that I saw in the pics will need to be replaced, which is a huge job and very expensive. If you really enjoy the idea of a project boat, and the work and challenges that it entails, then go for it. But I think you would do better to let this boat go and buy an older boat in reasonable condition at a reasonable price--I think you would end up spending as much fixing up this boat as you would on an older Ericson in good condition.

Let us know what you decide.

Frank

Wow, that's a project alright. I think the first thing you should do is get everything that isn't bolted down off and then wash/scrub inside and out, being careful of course not to further damage what's left of any of the wood. Next I would rip out the headliner. After that, you may get a better idea of what you are left with.

Short list, I would replace all wiring, lines, and hoses. I'd drop the rig and have everything checked over by a good rigger. Get the functional/safety stuff done first. The rest is cosmetic and to an extent can be done while the boat is in the water.

If the diesel turns over, that's big, but you may spend a bit of time getting it up and kicking. I hope you are mechanically inclined. It would be pretty underpowered with a outboard off of a 25 footer, but you may be able to find a donor engine that is either in better shape that you can swap or use for parts relatively cheaply.

Middle River, MD?

Yes I am in Middle River, MD. Bowley's Marina.

Not too encouraged by what I am hearing so far, but please keep the comments coming. (Edited not sure if I am just looking for someone to say: "go for it, this can't be that bad.")

I am mechanically inclined. I am up for a challenge and considering what I have now and what I would be getting in this boat, I think it is worth the time and effort, but I would like to hear from more Ericson owners.

I was given the Lancer 25 that I have now and had to rip out all the headliner because of deck leaks and a prior owner that must have gotten a great deal on silicone caulk. Anyway, the boat has leaked for years and now has been cleaned up and cosmetically looks and sails great. She is a quarter keel though so she has to be sailed pretty straight up and down and does not have any of the amenities that this Ericson has.

The deck and structure of the boat all seem very solid. No soft spots (which my Lancer has lots of). The way that I am initially looking at it, structurally she is sound. Just need sails and I could drop her in the drink and we would be off inboard or outboard for power. All the niceties can be redone as time and money allow but they wouldn't preclude me from enjoying a boat that seems to have a lot of rave reviews.

But this could all just be my naive optimism. Please continue to give me your thoughts.

if you determine that you are up for this, you can get a lot of what you need reasonably if you buy used. If you don't know of it already, check out Bacon Sails in Annapolis for decent prices on used stuff. They may even have sails that will fit. Skimp on what you can, but spend the money on the important stuff and get the boat safe.

Gems for parts and other hardware also come up on Ebay and Craigslist to keep the costs down. Be creative and do as much of the work yourself. Maybe try to put together a reasonable budget for what you think this will cost and then triple it. If you can buy another boat in better shape for that number then maybe this isn't worth it.

Just remember, free boats aren't free.

Hi Patrick,

Welcome to the site. The boat does look like a project but it's hard to tell what you have with the all the mess. Since the boat is free why not start with a good scrub down and see what you think then? You started out looking at a two year project that's a good sign.

Fine I'll say it, "go for it this can't be that bad." ;-)

It can be done. It depends on how much work you really want and how much money you want to spend. Do not do it if you are looking to have a nice boat "on the cheap." It will not be cheap. It will be very expensive. All tasks will take approximately three times as long as you expect and cost three times more than you expect. But, do it if you love this kind of work. Do it if you don't mind contorting your body in strange positions while being covered in fiberglass dust, epoxy, and other nasty items. Do it if you love solving problems. And do it if you want something that you can look at and be proud of what you accomplished. Two years sounds like a reasonable time (I spent three years on a similar project but I was working full time). From the pictures it looks pretty bad. I suggest clearing anything out that is not bolted down, vacuuming all the crap out and see what you have left. Check the bulkheads and compression post for rot. If those are shot its a major effort to replace them. Looks like there is potential for core damage, what with some of the hardware removed and the holes still open. Check to see if the core is wet (even if it sounds firm there can still be a lot of water in there). Check that mast area. Looks like there are cracks in the gelcoat probably from the structure underneath weakening and the mast compressing it down. this could be a core issue or a compression post/bulkhead issue. You may not be able to bring the gelcoat back to a nice shine, so you should probably plan on painting the boat. Check the keel/hull joint, it looks like it might need to be re-bedded.

With a boat like this you should assume that every system in there is suspect and should be repaired or replaced. If my experience is any guide, you basically have a shell with a few usable bits on it, and some of the shell might not even be fully sound!

Would I do it again? I would definitely do it once, because I learned so much. But maybe not again. The only way I would do it again is if I could find the right boat, and I had a place at my house where I could work on it. One needs to build momentum and keep plugging away at it, and its so much easier if its right next to you.

EDIT- OK, I took another look through the photos. I would probably walk away from this one. Just too much damage internally. Its a ton of woodworking for one thing...

Good luck!

Doug

A 2 year project if you are dedicated and funded! I am not sure it is a total yet. I do believe that most everything mechanical, electrical, plumbing or safety related will have to be replaced. That said if you are up for it when you are finished it will be a new boat. It does deserve a good scrubbing inside and out, and inside and out of everything. then start at the engine as it is a 5 to 10 thousand dollar anchor if it will not run, and if it does can easily sell for enough to pay for the disposal of the rest. Then look at the woodwork again inside and out for rot and mold etc. Sanding it down and bleaching/varnishing is a time deal that you are apparently willing to do, but replacing a significant amount of the woodwork may be more expense than you are prepared for. At that point, I would look LONG AND VERY HARD at what you have. It will take 10 grand to get it in the water and all of 2 years at 3-4 hours a day and all your days off to get it back to top shape, but then it will be in top shape (Assuming the engine can be made to run). All the projects can and have been done by most of us (and you will need to do all of them). It will either be a diamond or a nightmare, depending on your talent and determination to do the work. You must begin with a love for the kinds of work it will take... days of sanding... nights filled with tracking down material... hours of crawling around in imposable places... all with no end in sight for months and months to come. but in the end it MAY be not much more work than buying boat then replacing everything to meet your needs. Like was said before clean it up, then get back to us with what your enthusiasm level is. Right now it looks BAD, but it has obviously collected a few years of nasty that makes it hard to see what you are really starting with. It looks really bad, but under the debris it may be just bad and it sounds like you are up for "just bad". Good luck and If you go ahead I will look forward to all the posts and photos of what will be an epic premier on Ericson Restoration by the time it splashes! Edd

Deja vu

Your pictures looked awfully familiar. I have a 30-2 Ericson that was on the hard for 4 years with no weather boards in and missing one window. I shoveled it out and pressure washed it inside and out. I had it surveyed and found that the hull, sails, and standing rigging were sound. I had an oil analysis done on the engine (it was bad). Then I bought it. I replaced the engine, all AC/DC wiring, replumbed the head, added pressurized hot water, refinished wood, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. It took 3 months to get it in the water but then I could sail it. The rest of the work has been ongoing ( and will be as long as I own it). Current big project is to replace the headliner (PO had ripped it out). All said it's been fun, and I have a safe comfy reliable boat. I could spare all the blood sweat and tears and I learned a lot. There's been great satisfaction in bringing her back from her near death experience but I'm 61 years old and I would NOT do it again. :headb:. If your boat is basically sound, go for it!

I second the suggestions to clear all the debris out to figure out exactly what you have. Then I would try to assess my goals and only you know what they are.

If the primary goal is to have a 30 foot boat on the cheap, this is not the way to do it. You would be better off spending the money on a 30-40 year old boat that someone has already refitted. You will spend a lot less money than he has--or than you would in refitting and/or rebuilding your own boat.

If your goal is to build your own boat because you like such projects (there are such people) then assess the condition of vital systems, such as the hull, deck, bulkheads, chainplates, engine, mast, rigging, winches, and determine how far you want to take the rebuild against the time and money that you have available. You don't need new paint/varnish/replumbed pressurized hot water system/refrigeration/electric windlass just to sail. You can add those things later if you determine you need them.

There are pros and cons to anything. If you are looking to save money, cut costs, or get sailing on the cheap, this may not be the boat. If you are looking for one heck of a project and don't mind spending serious time and money then maybe so. I would strip everything out and off and then start. I would start with the parts that are vital to sailing and then get sailing. You can always day sail a boat with a stripped out cabin. Then, in the off season do work on the inside. One thing for certain, when you have finished you will know that boat inside and out - literally!


Best,
Frank

Bulkhead

Patrick, how does the port side bulkhead look around the chainplate? I have an '83 E-30+ and would be happy to take pictures, measurements and tell you about my restoration efforts.

John

Lots of good comments. I have a sister-ship ERY30511M80A - it is basically a 1979 constructed Ericson 30+. I was in a similar situation but the guy asked what was in my pocket which amounted to grand total of $53 and some change. Three years later, $10,129.37 and countless labor hours (the boat is in my backyard), I am not done. In fact, in the time it took to finish most of the outside and move to the inside, the exterior teak varnish has started to crack. Never finished. I've been discouraged, but haven't quit yet since it's still cheaper than therapy! I have plenty of before, during and somewhat after photos in my profile, but I have not updated them lately. I'll get to that soon and show the more interior progress. The latest is $500 of titanium U-bolts for the chain plates. Anyhow, it will cost you every bit of $10K. If you like doing this, go for it. If not, I'd like to talk to you about getting the engine, strut and maybe even the keel. I believe it is the 5416 Universal diesel and mine needs parts. Regards, Brad

Brad really nailed it. Before I retired I had a fairly stressful job and working on our boat - this one and the one prior - was always referred to as boat therapy.
Heck, I once saw a sailboat named "Therapy"...


If it aint always fun, at least it's good for ya!


Loren

UPDATE: So I am still on the fence with whether to take possession of this boat. I came across this when I first inspected the boat and am still curious to know what it is. On the startboard side of the hull below the waterline there is a perfectly round hole and as far as I can tell nothing that it is connected to. There does not seem to be any softening of the hull around it so I don't know that it has affected the structural integrity of the hull, but of course when it goes back in the water if there is nothing on the other side of the hole then it will be a place for water to obviously enter and ruin the boat from the inside. Anyone know what this could be?

If it is perfectly round it was likely created with a drill. There must have been a thru hull there at one point. The torn up paint suggests caulking removal with the thru hull.

What does it look like on the inside?

labor of love? or therapy...

You definitely have a shoal draft 30+, which is a great design for the Chesapeake. I won't elaborate on the various pro's and con's of restoring this boat, as others have posted quite well on the issues. Well, I can't resist a little input... My 1980 E30+ was in sail away condition in 2000, that is everything worked. I purchased it for $18.5k. The first month I spent $5k in parts alone, so that BoatUS would insure it. All underwater seacocks, hoses, traveler, electrical bonding, head, etc. It adds up quick!
Since you are local, please feel free to come by and look/sail my boat for motivation(yes, I am proud of how I have upgraded/maintained it). I am in Severna Park, not far from Middle river.
If you do go ahead, you need to be good friends with Bacon and Associates Phone: 410-263-4880: 116 Legion Ave. Annapolis, MD 21401. They sell used boat hardware and sails, you never know what you will find.(I found a electrical panel for $10 that had the same circuit breaker/switches). I also know of a Ericson 26 for sail at Smith's marina for $1500, not as bad of shape, had about 2 feet of water down below for a month. otherwise sound.

a "fixer-Upper"

Partick.
If you've already been through this once and started with similar challenges on the Lancer I would say you already know the answer. Your opening writeup centered on getting access to photos, etc. of intact boats and you've already been offered that. Good job with the Photo journal by the way, and now you've got the "Before" images captured.
Water heater cladding is toast, the tank might still be Ok, hoses all look to be original so assume every foot of hose is coming out. Priority would have to be safety related, anything connected to a thru-hull and that the valves will all turn.
My guess on that hole in the hull, either a scavenger made off with the depth transducer or some thoughtful individual popped that hole in the hull to drain an accumulation of water out of the hull. Freeze-up of water in the hull is probaqbly the biggest enemy of any boat laid up long term.
Next is structural and that's primarily the builkheads that support the mast. (I could see some gelcoat crazing near the base of the mast in one of your images) Mast itself looks great, minor peeling at the deck step only.
From my perspective teak veneer is all very nice but painted interiors with some level of contrasting trim looks great too. This approach would allow you to progressively remove wasted/ rotten veneer ply panels and replicate them from exterior grade (good one side) plywood. Once you've stripped the interior, a good degrease and wash (leave the drain hole for the time being!) apply a coat of a biocide type primer paint to every surface you can get access to and latex paints are probably fine if meant for exterior application. Likely the biggest progress would be getting rid of every scrap of absorbant materials that hold odor. She can't smell too pretty!
The missing winches, from the Hole Patterns show she's had two different sized sets of primaries. eBay, Bacon or any number of consignment boat shops are sources for these big ticket pieces of hardware. Rather you're asked to pay 10 cents on the dollar compared to the new catalog price, and they don't have to be "self-tailing"
Running rigging looks to all be rotten, don't scrimp there, every line, sheet, halyard that you touch in the run of a day has to feel good in the hands. Leave the industrial/ utility crap on the shelf in the discount store. Buy the good stuff and learn to splice and finish them yourself.
Electrical, I wouldn't jump at replacing it all, 1st order of business would be to inspect it. If the external insulation is not cracking/ splitting and the exposed conductors are not corroded, tidy it up, secure it with tray, clips, tie-wraps etc. as appropriate so it's no nonger dangling. Once you've been through her end to end, land a battery in the tray, hook it up and see what you've got. Contact cleaner spray or equivalent on the switches and breakers will very likely get them going again.
Next would be to test the tanks, you've got to find them, isolate them and apply a bit of pressure (2 or 3 psi maximum) to determine if they're serviceable or not. If they test Ok that flushing and cleaning is then an option. Whale Gusher Pump(s) need a fresh diaphram (plus carry a spare)
The Datamarine instruments in that bulkhead can be found on eBay periodically, looks like two empty housings! They are still rebuildable - DMI Marine Inc. Priority to me would be a reliable depth sounder for the shallow waters of the Chesapeake, the rest are just "nice-to-haves" and they can come later.

Frank L,
Are there decompression levers on that Universal? Would make rolling it over an easy check. Diesels are increadibly tough and resilliant engines. Clean fuel and the mode to turn them over rapidly enough to build compression is all they need. To me, determing if that engine is serviceable would be the deciding factor to taking this on, or not!
My 2 cents worth.