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E 32-2 deck and stanchion problems

JORGE

Member III
The boats is showing it age ( 1973 I think) and little corrective maintenance had been done by prior owners. Some areas around the lower chainplates ( appx 1ft w x 3ft.L)and close to several stanchions are exhibiting some minor softness. In addition, some stanchions are just leaky.. I am planning on working from inside because it's Winter (in the East) outside. All areas affected are near the edges of the deck. I thought of cutting out the trim (Rotozip) of the solid headliner to get out the wet core and remount the stanchions in epoxy(which have backing plates already). Has anyone done this kind of work themselves. I need a sucess story.
 

John Bouchard

Member II
Bulkhead/chainplate area "softness"

Jorge,
Check out all the info on this site regarding bulkhead/chainplate problems with this boat. It is a possible serious issue with serious consequences if not properly addressed. I was able to purchase my boat for low dollars because a boat survey had warned the potential buyer of the problem.

I am working away from home on a different keyboard, and I've "erased" three responses to your thread. Write to me directly and I'll share my experiences, photos, etc.

The key is to have a "knowledgeable" person look at this rot and determine the extent of the problem. Several means of repair are discussed on this site, and I opted for replacement of three bulkheads and repair of the fourth. Check under "Mast Step Reinforcement" (which also addresses another issue on E32's) for a couple of pictures of the bulkhead replacement project.

As for stanchion baseplates, I haven't got to that yet, but I have noticed that a few on my boat are missing backing plates, which need to be provided. In addition, with most of the cabinetry removed during the bulkhead replacement, it appears that we can get at the area between the headliner and deck, and may be able to force some epoxy into that area and re-drill.

Well, I haven't erased this one yet, so I'll send it off. Good Luck! ... and don't hesitate to email directly for more info. I won't be home for another week (Feb 6).

John B.
 

Michael Edwards

Member II
Stantions and deck repair

Jorge, look at this technique carefullyhttp--www.triton381.com... This man has done a great job of documenting repairing a deck. I recomend working with your roto tool from the top. Make a neat cut-out of the effected deck area that you will later replace. Use a chisle to srape out the core , but leave the glass under it intact. Next with an allen wrench mounted in a drill, cut under the surrounding area about an inch all around. Make an epoxy paste to secure the new core material and the deck. Clamping by weight or vacuum from above is far easier than from below. Use gelcoat to paint over the area, to match it like a pro. The major epoxy companies have exellent repair guides for low cost. If you discover blisters, have much to say on that ; having just completed a major repair and barrior coat project on my E-32.
 

JORGE

Member III
Never mind the stanchions

Almost all the stanchions were leakin and so they were removed. Some are being repaired/welded, and a gate is being added, probably going to use topsinquality.com for custom work, they have a website. The fore-deck was a cushion some other areas very wet(soaked). THe deck liner is FBG , so I opted to have the work done from the top. Many fittings were never maintained properly(disgusted!) so other areas are wetdeck also. Having this major job done and then a new coat will go on soon. More pictures later.
 

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jmoses

Member III
E-35 MKII deck delam success

Jorge,

I guess it's alrady too late, but you could have gotten at the delam from underneath. Just because there is a pesky liner in the way is no issue. In fact, getting rid of it is a blessing. I had massive delam problems with the entire foredeck, cockpit floor and port deck. All most all of it due to the P.O. not re-bedding anything on the boat (one exception, the area underneat the port lower stay was resin starved form Ericson). Fortunately I knew it going into the purchase and expected as much.

However, I discovered that the areas were about 50% more than anticipated due to the wicking nature of balsa core. I replaced all the balsa with closed cell foam [Klege-cell or Divyna-cell SP?)]. The downside form going at it from the top is not knowing if you got all the soggy core, I had to chip away at the balsa until I found good material that was actually adhering to the resin. I was astounded to find most of the port deck coring fwd was resin starved and pulling away from the deck laminate! Only way to know was to keep chipping away until I almost reached my previous repair under the aft stanchion.......Bummer.

I did all the work from inside the boat by removing the liner where necessary (fore cabin and port deck area) and attacked the problem from underneath. I was able to get at all the problem areas and remove the rotten core, grind down to the initial 1st layer of fiberglass/gelcoat then slowly rebuild back inwards ala X-matt, foam coring and much epoxy resin. See attached photos.

In this way I was able to save the decking and not have to do any exterior cosmetic work. All the work was done from the inside and was covered up with 1/4" luan which was sealed, filled to a glossy surface then painted with multiple coats of paint. It was trimmed out in mahogany. I did install new 1/4" x 3" x 4" S.S. backing plates on all the stanchion posts (as well as a good re-bedding on ALL DECK FITTINGS).

John M.
 

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jmoses

Member III
Delam on foredeck

Jorge,

More delam pics of foredeck (note S.S. backing plate to upper right, mahogany backing piece for foredeck track, etc.). The fore deck is now about 3/4" thick in most places (foam core) and is solid 1" ply in area of windlass to bow. Also, there is a 1/4" Al. backing plate for entire area under cleats, windlass, jackline mounts, and rail mounts (all unseen behind anchor locker doors). The forcabin area was formatted for a full size custom folding mattress instead of the useless Vee berth. Also gone is the cheezy foam on the hull and in its place is a 1/8" closed cell foam for insulation. It's been filled and painted with 1" mahogany strips laid over top and a small shelf. Ceiling is currently underway.

John M.
 

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JORGE

Member III
John, great looking job. I hired a FBG guy who is a doing all the work from outside only. Everything at his point is sealed outside but, the heavy- weight biaxglass and gelcoat still have to be completed, then the deck gets awlgripped. If I had done this work I would have done it from inside. Most of 95 % of my deck has been replaced , and half of the cabin top trunk is just about complete with divinyle foam. THe center wood hatch was a total leaker, causing major damage. The companion way sliding rails for the hatch also allowed water in. I removed the handrails which caused leaks also. All wood framing is being restored. I'm rebuliding with epoxy and some new teak, and plexi and hardware. PO had the bulkheads near chainplates reinforced by rebuilding with 3/4 mahogany, looks like I'll make a bookshelf on each side to conceal the design.
John, did you see clear vinyl shrink wrap covering on the forward hull walls. How did you remove the material? You mention foam, did you mean vinyl with foam backing. Assume you then covered the hull with 1/4 luan, was this glued to sub strips? Did you use pink insulating panels? What steps did you take to re-cover the walls?
 

jmoses

Member III
More Delam info

Jorge,

Now that you mention it, my exterior rails were leaking as well. Although not TOO bad, they were getting there. I had a little water dripping from galley light which I attributed to the rails. I fabricated new exterior teak rails which were 3/4" taller and 7/8" thick to beef them up and not scrape knuckles on non-skid. I also added interior rails the same size which were attached to the exterior ones with custom bolts which were ~1/4" x 8" long (threaded rod with nuts tack welded on one end). In essence, the bolts thru bolted everything together with a nut inide and then capped with a barrel nut. Outside was bunged closed.

The material from Ericson in the fwd cabin was foam backed vinyl glued to the hull which was nothing but a moisture and mold factory. It was glued to the hull with contact glue and came off fairly easy. What was left was ground off with a Makita and sanding wheel and cleaned up with acetone. I then epoxied the 1/8" closed cell foam directly to the hull (adding some rigidity). The foam core was filled in with micro-ballons and 3M filling putty. The final finish was 2 part paint for hiding characteristics.

The main cabin luan was only screwed to the 1"x 1" wood furring strips(possible removal at a later date?). The furring strips were screwed and epoxied to the above deck (see pics). In the main cabin I needed 1" space to install Cantaluppi recessed 12V orbital spots into the ceiling, hence the 3 holes with wires hanging out. The countersunk screws in the luan were filled with 3M putty and the final coat of paint done in place.

The fwd cabin will only be 1/4" x1" furring strips as I'm not installing any lights in ceiling. There was no need for any insulation as the 1/2" closed cell foam in the port deck (and the 1/8" fwd affixed to hull) is good enough insulation to prevent condensate and transfer of heat. Up fwd, I no longer get condensate on the hull. Also, since the foredeck is now mostly foam cored (actully two 1/2" sheets epoxied together in most places), the insulation is good......no more raining from the deck over head either. So, I did not think any insulation was necessary.

Note the new S.S. H2O tank in several pictures. I increased tankage from a measly 15 gal. to almost 40 gal.

John M.
 

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gareth harris

Sustaining Member
I don't often disagree with John, but this time I do. I am in the process of attacking my deck from above; I like the cabin headliner, and felt that the non-skid was in a state that it could use replacing anyway. I also think it is much easier to build new deck from above, rather than have it dripping down everywhere, and there is much less to get in your way on the top side. That said, John, what you have done to replace the headliner does look very, very good. Where I have pulled away headliner to reinforce the hull/deck joint I will replace with something similar.

I have found the same problem with the deck appearing to have been not very well built in places. The starboard side, with the exception of where there is severe rot around the fittings, is nigh impossible to break up as it is so strong. On the port side, by contrast, the coring comes up by hand with a chisel.

I have also had the same places of water entry - I think Ericson could have had more foresight as to what would happen to the decks with water entry, maybe there just isn't enough rain in California for people to think about it.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
 

dcoyle

Member III
You guys must be retired or not have a job, other than working on yacht. My 1981 E33 has a couple of wet spots on deck but I have to pay the man to fix. Not enough time or cccccourage to do what your pictures show.
 

Warren Casey

Junior Member
More imformation

How do I "check under" something on this message board??? The below quote is of interest to me!

"Check under "Mast Step Reinforcement" (which also addresses another issue on E32's) for a couple of pictures of the bulkhead replacement project."
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Search function...

At the top of this thread is a blue bar with clickable words, one of which is "Search"
Click on that, and enter your word or group of words in the box and click on "Go". The search function for this site is fast and the site is well-indexed.
Please contact me directly if you have questions.

Best,
Loren
 

John Bouchard

Member II
Follow-up to Warren

Warren,

If you have particular interest in that quote (I think I wrote it!), send me an email with questions, if you'd like. I took a bunch of pictures while replacing bulkheads. My E32 is also a 1971 model, Hull #199.

John B.
 

JORGE

Member III
Hey John M.
You mention in "delam foredeck", about using 1/8" closed cell foam. I like that idea. :) Where could I get it? I searched a marine catalog, but could only find 3/8" structural core(divinyl). I believe you said you adhered it to the hull using epoxy? and then coated/fillied it? Are the recessed lights "led"?
 

jmoses

Member III
Delam material

Jorge,

yes, I used 1/8" closed cell foam completey epoxied to the hull, which was then filled with micro-balloon epoxy. The vertical mounting boards were then epoxied in place, the small defects filled with 3M 2-part filler and the whole shebang rolled/brushed painted with 2-part epoxy paint for even more filling ability. It was a long process so patience is required, but the results speak for themselves I think.

As for sources? I found it here in San Fran locally via a good yard (Svendsen's). They had it many sizes in stock (1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, and 2). The make was either Divynal-cell (sp?) or Klege-cell (sp?). Also, make sure sun exposure is minimal as there is no UV protection (it will be buried in the deck no?). It will degarde and turn chalky with chunks easily rubbing off if exposed for any length. Try searching their web sites for a local distrubuter or call a good yard. If needed, try Svendsen's Marine here in San Francisco, they may have some info on the manufacturer(s):
510-521.8454 or try their web site.

The lights are halogen "Cantalupi" lights of make "Roger" (Italian). They are gold plated and as a result, will never tarnish or fade. They are orbital spots with small On/Off switch on facia. Cost = ~$65.00 each, but that was ~3 years ago...probably more like 100.00+ now :(

LED's were way too expensive when I was planning and ordering all the materials. They may be more affordable now (relatively speaking).

Hope that helps,

John M.
 

JORGE

Member III
non-skid on the deck

If you search " non-skid" you will find an image of my deck. which I recently top coated with epoxy resin. Since the season splash down, I've thought about trying to set down non-skid pattern. The sand types appear fine but I worry about it filling in with paint when I finish the deck in the Spring. So I have been experimenting with System 3 Quickfair epoxy and Plastic canvas, found in Craft stores. The one I purchase was a mesh called No.7. , it's a 11x14" sheet( none larger), I pressed the screening down on top of the fresh epoxy after coating the plastic screening with hair spray. After this kicked I removed the screening. the impression looks and feels like a rock. The only problem is pulling the screening up off the set epoxy. Next time I will try to coat the canvas with PVA spray.
I have to take some photos. and post them. This method could also be used for coating steps.
 

JORGE

Member III
deck shaping up

Primed the finished deck with Primekote.

The non-skid will be laid down in the spring
 

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