Rigging asymmetrical spinnaker on E34

Has anyone here rigged their Ericson 34 or 38 for an asymmetrical spinnaker? The asymmetrical spinnaker is flown without a pole, and the question is: How did you rig the spinnaker tack block for the tack downhaul at the bow? Some suggest attaching the tack block to the anchor roller--for example with the pin in the anchor roller. The tack downhaul now runs from the tack, forward of the forestay, down to the spinnaker tack block and aft to the cockpit. Second, how did you rig the blocks for the sheets? The outer tracks by the toerail don't go far enough aft, and moreover, the blocks don't articulate (swivel) for sheet control. Some suggest attaching blocks to the stern cleats, using line. What kind of blocks did you get, and how did you attach them?

I haven't seen people use headsail tracks for this. Most common set up is to use snatch blocks on the stern cleats. This assumes your cleats are strong enough and you get a fairlead between snatch-block-on-cleat and winch. Lacking both, you could try installing a heavy duty padeye in a location that works.

Here is a link to Garhauer snatch blocks: http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=26

Depending totally on the cut and shape of your particular A-sail, running the sheets through blocks shackled to anything strong near a primary winch might work just fine. Does your model have a perforated toe rail?

Some experimenting on a ten-knot-breeze-day is in order.....



LB

Asymmetical spinnaker

Thanks for the responses.

And no--the Ericson 34-200 doesn't have perforated toe rails.

Periodically using an old Ulman Flasher on my E38. Tack is to a bow cleat, with and ATN Tacker locating it on the headstay. I don't bother with adjusting the tack, just tie it off once a bit of experimenting showed what the boat liked. An old block on a bit of used 1/2 line hooked into the stern cleat does the trick on the other end. I don't jibe that sail, only use it for long runs, so its setup with one sheet and I only need one block. Sail is in a sock so its really easy to use. RT

Asymmetical spinnaker

The ATN Tacker is a good idea, Rob. I see Defender sells them. In the photo at this page, the tack downhaul runs to a block on the anchor roller, interestingly enough. Your idea to use the blow cleat is a good one, too.

One caveat - you get a large enough increase in pressure and that tacker may bend (i.e. ruin) a foil section on your furler. While the "point load" is spread out a little bit over several inches of contact, it is still mostly a point loading.

Am pretty sure, if one checks the small print, that ATN will not replace foil sections or pay for the labor for same. Also, if it's in the same position for several hours, it may well chafe thru a layer of rolled in cloth/dacron, it seems like...

Loren

On my boat, the tack of the gennaker is run to the anchor roller where it has a short (~4-6') pennant line which is passed through a block. That way I can tighten or ease the luff, depending on how high I'm pointing. I just secure that luff tack pennant (through the block) to the bow cleat.

I lead my sheets through simple blocks attached to padeyes mounted on the aft ends of the cockpit coamings. I think you could attach to the stern cleat just as well so long as you can lead the sheets through & around the stanchions & lifelines. Don't spend the extra money for expensive snatch blocks, though. I think a simple single block will work fine for each sheet.

As far as the ATN tacker, I have one but I don't see it as necessary, nor particularly useful. It might help just a bit when coming a bit closer to the wind, but if you are running off the wind, it seems to be beneficial to let the luff billow out a bit more away from the forestay. That point of sail is really what your assymetrical is all about, anyway. So for my $0.02, save your money and don't buy a tacker. A good sock/snuffer, though, that is another story. THAT you need! The ATN is a good one.

There are other posts on this subject where Seth has brought forth his wisdom. I learned a lot from those. Try to search for some of those. He the best at explaining it.

Asymmetrical spinnaker

Keith and Loren: Without the ATN tracker, could I just run the tack line through a block at the anchor roller?

Asymetrical

BTW, before you hoist the sail, decide if you will do inside or outside gybes. By that I mean inside or outside of the forestay. If you do an outside gybe, the sail billows out & forward of the forestay. The lazy sheet must be led out and around the forestay to accommodate that maneuver. It is best to do an outside gybe if the spinnaker halyard attaches to the mast above the forestay, IMO.

Brookelise said:

Keith and Loren: Without the ATN tracker, could I just run the tack line through a block at the anchor roller?

Click to expand...

Yep. That's all you need, IMHO.

We have a Code Zero on Voice of Reason. We run a spectra loop off the headstay tang, which is the furthest-forward point we could attach something to without fixing a sprit, which would give us a rating hit. From the loop we run a block and the tack line is fed back to a cam cleat in the cockpit. We thought about the bow roller, but that would have required extensive modification of the bow plate for it to handle the upward pressure. (i.e. we would have had to reinforce the fiberglass and probably put a plate behind the screws)
We sheet to the usual spin blocks at the stern, but to shape the sail correctly, we have to tween them in from blocks we have at the beam. Works out pretty well.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Aysmmetrical spinnaker

Interesting that you didn't think the bow roller could handle the upward pressure. Any thoughts on that regarding the roller on an E34? Would it be better to attach the block just aft of the forestay?

windjunkee said:

We have a Code Zero on Voice of Reason. We run a spectra loop off the headstay tang, which is the furthest-forward point we could attach something to without fixing a sprit, which would give us a rating hit. From the loop we run a block and the tack line is fed back to a cam cleat in the cockpit. We thought about the bow roller, but that would have required extensive modification of the bow plate for it to handle the upward pressure. (i.e. we would have had to reinforce the fiberglass and probably put a plate behind the screws)
We sheet to the usual spin blocks at the stern, but to shape the sail correctly, we have to tween them in from blocks we have at the beam. Works out pretty well.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Click to expand...

It is an interesting question on whether the anchor roller will handle the load or not. On my boat at least, the anchor roller is part of the stainless bow headstay, stem reinforcement thingie. There is a stainless tang that extends down the stem maybe a foot, with multiple large screws. This takes all the headstay loads, as well as anchor loads. If you have a setup like this it will more than handle the A-sail load. RT

Asymmetical spinnaker

Yes, it's the same with our boat, Rob. Here's a poor photo, much magnified.

One more datapoint...

On our 1984 35-3 we attach the tack to the anchor roller via a small block. The block will self-destruct, or our .75oz chute will shred long before the roller bends.

We sheet it on an adjustable car on the external track near the winch.

We do not use an ATN tacker, but do use a chute-scoop for convenience.

I do like light floating sheets though, it avoids most of the issues with getting them tangled in the prop or rudder if a gybe goes funny.

We've been happy with this setup, and I'll often fly it when by myself.

Our bow roller is attached to a stainless plate which is screwed into the fiberglass with 4 large stainless wood screws. Prior to our ownership, there were some cracks in the fiberglass under this plate. Water soaked in there and the core got rotten and soft. We firmed it up and reinforced the area with "Git Rot" epoxy but still, we didn't want to take a chance so we found an alternate attachment point. The bow roller was my first option though.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

Thinking on jibing an asym, UK Halsey has a nice little video clip you can view on their website for no charge. You do need to give them an email. This is a clip from a DVD they have on sailing their "Flasher" asym. It makes jibing one of these look very easy. It's almost as easy as they make it look


http://www.ukhalsey.com/LearningCenter/FlasherMovie/flasherlogin.asp

The stem fitting on my 30+ looks like the pic posted by Brookelise. The anchor roller fitting, however, is not attached to it; they are separate pieces. Here's a pic:



Kind of hard to tell, but you can see the gap between the roller and the stem fitting. (Not sure what that snap shackle was used for but it's since been removed...)

Don't know for sure since I don't have a spinnaker, but I think Cory may be right; the block or the chute is going to fail before the bow roller, at least if it looks like mine...

I added an asym and added a deck mounted pole. Works great, very controllable for racing and for cruising with my wife. With a sock is very manageable.