My husband and I recently acquired a 1973 27' Ericson from his uncle and we're trying to register and insure it. His uncle had it dry-docked for years and never registered it. He never had a title, only a bill of sale from the previous owner that has since been misplaced. I found 5 digits that were imprinted 27-185 however my insurance company is requiring a 12 digit HIN. I'm assuming the beginning of this would be ERY. The last 4 digits would contain 73. I guess if I knew the month it was certified and which method is used (example M73_ or _ _73) I could figure this out. Any thoughts or suggestions?
HELP!! No HIN found on 1973 27'
- Thread starter Jessy
- Start date
HIN research
(I moved this post to a more-appropriate forum.)
This question comes up often. My guess is that the implementation of the then-new HIN scheme took place over several years in the early 70's. I have no idea when the E-27 started sporting the molded-in letters-n-numbers.
Some site searching on HIN finds other threads.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?279-Hull-ID-location-on-boat
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6094-Hull-Identification-Sail-Number
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1698-Hull-number-Ericson-23
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1878-Hull-s
If you go onto the web and Google "HIN" there are a lot of gov't sites with info as well.
Reading over your post, and maybe over interpreting 'between the lines' there seems be a basic title issue. If you live in a "full title" state like the one in which I reside, having (or re-creating) a title is really important. I once had to create a title from scratch for a sailboat we imported from Canada. It had a bill of sale and a survey, but no title. It took some letter writing...
The thing is, your state is tasked with making theft difficult -- whether it be boats, cars, or aircraft seeking a title to cover up neferious origins.
One thing they should be able to do is locate the previous registration in their inactive database. Oregon does this routinely, for instance.
You will probably end up with some notarized forms declaring you to be the lawful owners and finally having a title created. And, finally your insurance company will be happy with the proof that the asset being insured exists...
Let us know how it works out.
LB
(I moved this post to a more-appropriate forum.)
This question comes up often. My guess is that the implementation of the then-new HIN scheme took place over several years in the early 70's. I have no idea when the E-27 started sporting the molded-in letters-n-numbers.
Some site searching on HIN finds other threads.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?279-Hull-ID-location-on-boat
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?6094-Hull-Identification-Sail-Number
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1698-Hull-number-Ericson-23
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?1878-Hull-s
If you go onto the web and Google "HIN" there are a lot of gov't sites with info as well.
Reading over your post, and maybe over interpreting 'between the lines' there seems be a basic title issue. If you live in a "full title" state like the one in which I reside, having (or re-creating) a title is really important. I once had to create a title from scratch for a sailboat we imported from Canada. It had a bill of sale and a survey, but no title. It took some letter writing...
The thing is, your state is tasked with making theft difficult -- whether it be boats, cars, or aircraft seeking a title to cover up neferious origins.
One thing they should be able to do is locate the previous registration in their inactive database. Oregon does this routinely, for instance.
You will probably end up with some notarized forms declaring you to be the lawful owners and finally having a title created. And, finally your insurance company will be happy with the proof that the asset being insured exists...
Let us know how it works out.
LB
Thanks for the feedback! I had spoke to someone from the DE registration office regarding the missing registration and title last week. She pointed out the situation sounded "fishy" but then agreed to work around the issue if I provided a notarized statement explaining the situation. Of course this was before I realized the HIN too was missing. I will take your advice and see if they can locate the previous registration in the inactive database. I'm fairly certain the owner previous to my husband's uncle would have registered it. Fingers crossed!
The issue is that you should have one
Federal Regs stated that boats produced after November 1972 have a HIN in the hull.
You should have one if you have a 1973 boat, the fact that you don't is interesting. It could be a lot of things, one that the HIN is there, and you have not found it.. (That would be nice!). It should be located on the upper starboard corner of the transom. Do a rubbing of the area, like you would on old old gravestones etc, see if anything pops up on that.
It has been obliterated, by repairs or painting.. If by painting then you should dig it out. If by repair it should have been replaced when the repair was made..
Your boat may not have had one. This to me seems the most likely case. As you should have one and you don't. Maybe the hull was laid up before the deadline, but the boat was sold after the deadline. Alternately are you sure that your boat is not a 1972 boat instead of a 1973 boat? If a 1972 it will not have a HIN because they were not required yet. This seems the most likely scenario. So here is something to try. Take out the drawers in the whole boat, the covers over the settee lockers, and look on the bottoms. The should be a two digit number on some of them. This is your production number, generally we can figure out the year of build by asking a couple of other people on this board about their production number and figuring out when you boat was really built. Look at the tiller head, I have seen it stamped there too, or on a ring around the tiller opening in the deck (if you have one).
Remember Noah's ark probably had a HIN according to the DMV.
Guy
Federal Regs stated that boats produced after November 1972 have a HIN in the hull.
You should have one if you have a 1973 boat, the fact that you don't is interesting. It could be a lot of things, one that the HIN is there, and you have not found it.. (That would be nice!). It should be located on the upper starboard corner of the transom. Do a rubbing of the area, like you would on old old gravestones etc, see if anything pops up on that.
It has been obliterated, by repairs or painting.. If by painting then you should dig it out. If by repair it should have been replaced when the repair was made..
Your boat may not have had one. This to me seems the most likely case. As you should have one and you don't. Maybe the hull was laid up before the deadline, but the boat was sold after the deadline. Alternately are you sure that your boat is not a 1972 boat instead of a 1973 boat? If a 1972 it will not have a HIN because they were not required yet. This seems the most likely scenario. So here is something to try. Take out the drawers in the whole boat, the covers over the settee lockers, and look on the bottoms. The should be a two digit number on some of them. This is your production number, generally we can figure out the year of build by asking a couple of other people on this board about their production number and figuring out when you boat was really built. Look at the tiller head, I have seen it stamped there too, or on a ring around the tiller opening in the deck (if you have one).
Remember Noah's ark probably had a HIN according to the DMV.
Guy
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
All you need to do is find out the numerical code Ericson used for the year and month, pick a month from 1972/3 and add your 185, which is probably the hull number. Basically just make up a number and tell the DMV, "Oh, look, I found it!"
My HIN is ERY30705J485, which based on info in the links Loren provided equals ERY (Ericson) 30 (Model 30) 705 (hull production number) J (built in October) 4 (of 1984) 85 (year model 1985)
So I imagine yours could be ERY27185(pick a month code here - based on pre-1984 system)(pick a year code here - probably 3 for 1973)73
And voila! Instant HIN: ERY27185B373
Your boat was made in September 1973!
Keep in mind that your boat is 38 years old. I doubt another Ericson 27 with the same HIN is going to show up if you are worried about putting that number on your title. In fact, another can't show up because your unique hull number is 185.
My HIN is ERY30705J485, which based on info in the links Loren provided equals ERY (Ericson) 30 (Model 30) 705 (hull production number) J (built in October) 4 (of 1984) 85 (year model 1985)
So I imagine yours could be ERY27185(pick a month code here - based on pre-1984 system)(pick a year code here - probably 3 for 1973)73
And voila! Instant HIN: ERY27185B373
Your boat was made in September 1973!
Keep in mind that your boat is 38 years old. I doubt another Ericson 27 with the same HIN is going to show up if you are worried about putting that number on your title. In fact, another can't show up because your unique hull number is 185.
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It would appear that Groucho's duck has descended with the sign.....
No matter what others may believe or have been told over the decades - or guessed at - it likely is really a pre-HIN boat.
LB
A state boat registering authority might have issued a title when one was needed. Oregon has a method for doing that for homebuilt boats and presumably any others lacking a formal identification.
Well, that's just my guess.
Your "hin" should start out with "ERY...."
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic1.aspx?mic=waz&sort=mic
Your "hin" is for a company I have never heard of, BTW.
LB
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Waz
If I remember correctly WAZ is the prefix that home built or non hin numbered boats got from Washington state.
Guy
If I remember correctly WAZ is the prefix that home built or non hin numbered boats got from Washington state.
Guy
Thank you all for the help!! All signs point to it being a 1972... including it's new registration stats!! ALAS, she's legal!! Since the boat didn't have a title or previous registration, I was required to provide a notarized statement explaining all of this. To the best of our knowledge, titles were not attached to boats back then and Hull numbers consisted of 5 digits instead of the 12 used today. 12 digit HINs were not used until 1973. We were told that fortunately, neither Delaware (the state I live) and Rhode Island (the state it came from) are not title requiring states. Therefore, we didn't have to acquire or create one. I brought in my bill of sale (not notarized) and notarized statement explaining everything. They were able to both assign the boat a new HIN and register it on the spot. Lastly, my new HIN is completely unrelated to the Hull number. It starts with DL for Delaware License. They just gave me the next one in their book basically.
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mherrcat
Contributing Partner
Ahhh...legal at last...
Lacking a title you may want to consider documenting the boat with the USCG.
Not that you plan to take the boat out of the country, but in such a case the state registration basically means nothing and the title not much more. Apparently USCG documentation trumps both in proving ownership outside the US.
If the boat was never documented I'm not sure how it is done; I'm sure it is possible and the CG was very helpful in answering my questions. My boat was previously documented and I sent copies of my title and state registration to have it reinstated in my name.
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Being a bottom-feeder type of investor in rolling and floating stock, I have been through this a few times. I've done it in Washington and Oregon, and got those state-issued HINs & VINs. In both states, it requires an inspection by the State Police, and they have some period of time to try to match it to reports of stolen property, before the state issues a new title. (Even though I usually had a title - just no number.) It goes faster now in the age of internet databases! It used to take 5 years :0 Now, it's a couple of weeks.
And sometimes they find a match. Even in our little podunk town, the officer showed me three nice-loooking boats they had in the impound yard. People had bought them from craigslist or ebay, then when they tried to register them, they showed up stolen (from way back east.) Bottom line, don't do a "no title" deal with more money than you're willing to gamble and lose.
And sometimes they find a match. Even in our little podunk town, the officer showed me three nice-loooking boats they had in the impound yard. People had bought them from craigslist or ebay, then when they tried to register them, they showed up stolen (from way back east.) Bottom line, don't do a "no title" deal with more money than you're willing to gamble and lose.
Thanks but mine not there
Interesting, I never knew that, perhaps mostly because I have owned and worked on older wooden boats mostly until this one.
Anyway my 1973 E 35 does not have a number there on the transom.
I painted the hull about five years ago and I am quite sure I would have noticed it there at that time and not filled it in and obscured it, so I wonder how else i might find out which hull number it is. If it was there at one time I wonder if sanding through the gel coat might reveal it deeper in the FG?
I don't suppose it is critical as the boat has a US document number on a wooden plate in the chain locker, but i would be interested to know which hull number it is in the Ericson world. Any other suggestions as to how to retrieve the hull number?
Interesting, I never knew that, perhaps mostly because I have owned and worked on older wooden boats mostly until this one.
Anyway my 1973 E 35 does not have a number there on the transom.
I painted the hull about five years ago and I am quite sure I would have noticed it there at that time and not filled it in and obscured it, so I wonder how else i might find out which hull number it is. If it was there at one time I wonder if sanding through the gel coat might reveal it deeper in the FG?
I don't suppose it is critical as the boat has a US document number on a wooden plate in the chain locker, but i would be interested to know which hull number it is in the Ericson world. Any other suggestions as to how to retrieve the hull number?
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Hin
I had a 1973 E-27. Hull number no problem to find. The sail number and the HIN match, usually. Mine was 372.
I had a 1973 E-27. Hull number no problem to find. The sail number and the HIN match, usually. Mine was 372.
Hidden HIN.
Dear friend, There's a good chance that given the age of your boat, there is no stamped or impressed or what ever you call it, Hull Identification Number but there is hope. Somewhere later on in the 1970's the Coast Guard released rules mandating that the hull number be located in the hull in the upper starboard corner of the transom. But despair not, try by removing some of the drawers and look to see if there is a number (hull number) scrawled in felt marker on the bottom or back of one or more of them. That was done at the factory to keep track of which drawer that was just made, went with what boat, especially after lunch of the next morning. If tiller steered (I doubt it), look for the hull number that most likely will be stamped on the tiller head or base. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA.
Dear friend, There's a good chance that given the age of your boat, there is no stamped or impressed or what ever you call it, Hull Identification Number but there is hope. Somewhere later on in the 1970's the Coast Guard released rules mandating that the hull number be located in the hull in the upper starboard corner of the transom. But despair not, try by removing some of the drawers and look to see if there is a number (hull number) scrawled in felt marker on the bottom or back of one or more of them. That was done at the factory to keep track of which drawer that was just made, went with what boat, especially after lunch of the next morning. If tiller steered (I doubt it), look for the hull number that most likely will be stamped on the tiller head or base. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA.