E29 - help - minor c02 poisoning in v-birth

When I sleep in the v-birth, I find that I wake up after a few hours of sleep with the symptoms of c02 poisoning - shortness of breath, and a racing HR. I immediately start feeling better when I stick my head out of the boat, getting lungs full of fresh air.

Has anyone else had this problem?

If the answer is "no", then I'm guessing the problem is with the dorm fridge I have in the boat's cabin and I'll need to find another refrigeration solution.

If the answer is "yes', then I need to simply improve the ventilation in the v-birth.

I can fix the problem by opening the hatch at least a couple of inches, but that's certainly not ideal in the rain, and sometimes I simply forget to open it before bed.

What would people recommend as the best way to get proper ventilation into my b-birth at night?

Thanks for any help.

adam,
I have a day/night vent install in the forward hatch on our e29 http://www.marinco.com/product/daynight-plus-vent it is set for exaust and ventilates v-birth quite well.

Cheers,

Have you considered one of these?

http://www.pyacht.com/nicro-solar-vents.htm

Actually, there is an older model of one of those installed now.

But I've turned it off because it's too loud.

Are the newer models (or just newer units) relatively silent?

Dude this can kill you!!!!

I am right next door at Grand Marina... I have a CO monitor that I could lend you to verify the problem.

Is that dorm fridge a propane fridge? If it is only electric then there is no way it is generating that quantity of CO...

Is the boat across the way from you burning a diesel or propane heater? I have seen that fill up a cabin with deadly levels of CO on the boat next door....

Pm me with your contact information and lets get to the bottom of this before you end up dead.

Guy

Guy Stevens said:

I am right next door at Grand Marina... I have a CO monitor that I could lend you to verify the problem.

Click to expand...

In an electric fridge. And to be clear, I think it's a problem with CO2, not CO.

PM sent.

Improving ventilation in the V-berth.

Adam, I'm not familiar with the layout of an E29 but can share with you what I've done in our E31. The port hanging locker is just aft of the V-berth and for other reasons than yours, I've installed a fan there that could certainly move air forward into the berth. I had a mildew problem in the locker and attributed it to the boat spending its former life in Michigan and then South Carolina. So when she arrived here in SoCal, I washed down the mildew with Lysol and went on to the nest item on my check list. Lo and behold within a short time the mildew was back. I solved that problem permanently by fitting a louvered vent at the bottom of the locker door and another on the forward facing "side" of the locker pointed directly into the V-berth. I affixed an old slide projector fan immediately behind the upper louvered plate that drew air in from the locker via the lower vent and out into the cabin space. So now I have a sweet smelling locker now by simply moving air constantly though the locker. Maybe for your needs, a fan mounted at the entrance of the V-berth would suffice. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

Let me read between the lines.

No one has said so specifically, but I'm guessing that it is normal for a human to use up all of the fresh air in a smallish v-birth and that real ventilation is necessary. Is that right?

Everyone so far has suggested active solutions (powered fans), but what about a passive solution? I think I'd prefer something which didn't rely on electricity, and which was silent.

I could add a 3-4" cowl on my bow. It's above a space which drains to the bilge, so it's not a huge deal if some rain water occasionally gets in it. Then I would just need to add ventilation from that space into the v-birth. Is this a reasonable alternative to using a fan?

The only question is how much ventilation? Is there some rule of thumb to use?

V-berth ventilation, how much is enough?

Adam, Good point, my wife Marilyn and our Golden Retriever Frank sleep up in the V-berth and she gets gobs of fresh, moving air by simply opening the door to the chain locker and removing the cap to our anchor chain pipe up on deck. My description yesterday of the vent fan in the adjacent hanging locker only applies when our boat is hooked up to shore power. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

Are you closing a door between the V-berth and the main cabin? I sleep in the aft starboard quarter berth on my 30+ and have never had any problems, of course it does open right into the main cabin with no obstructions except the nav table.

On your forward hatch there should be an intermediate position for the latches that allows the hatch to remain secure but open about 1/4". In a real downpour water may splash up under the lip of the hatch and get in; it does on mine...

mherrcat, here are some back of the envelope calculations.

Front of the v-birth: 31 cubic feet.
Total v-birth: 127 cubic feet.
Main cabin: 448 cubic feet.

So, if the C02 I'm breathing out doesn't get circulated, and much of it remains in that tiny 31 cubic foot space, it would indeed explain the problem.

v "birth"

I hate grammar nazis, but I just can't stand this any more - it's a "berth"! Unless you're having a baby up there.....

Name aside this thread made me wonder - my wife and I are always getting headaches after spending a night on a boat. We had contributed that to lack of cushion support or perhaps red wine , Now though I will actively experiment with ventilation in v-berth to see if that is the root.

Cheers,

Red wine and headaches.

All, For as long as I can remember, even grape juice has given me mild headaches, much less red wine which gives a friend of mine such serious enough headaches that he stopped drinking it decades ago. I'm no doctor but that sounds a lot to me like the "Wrath of Grapes". What say you all? Glyn

jsnaulty said:

I hate grammar nazis, but I just can't stand this any more - it's a "berth"! Unless you're having a baby up there.....

Click to expand...

Doh!

Can I blame it on the lack of sleep and minor C02 poisoning?

P.S. Here's a wikipedia article on it, including symptoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia.

Sleep Apnea

Sleep apnea is more likely than too much CO2. It's a very common condition but I don't know why it would affect you on your boat & not at home. Do you snore? It can be a symptom of apnea. Maybe you need a sleep study. It has more serious consequences than most people would imagine. It can lead to atrial fibrulation (A-fib) - heart "flutter." I know because I had it - treated successfully.

co2

adam said:

Doh!

Can I blame it on the lack of sleep and minor C02 poisoning?

P.S. Here's a wikipedia article on it, including symptoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnia.

Click to expand...

I think slightly higher levels of CO2 (which is also what happens in your lungs with sleep apnea) could certainly produce the symptoms you describe. I am a former us navy experimental diver /MD and we would, in training, put 2 candidates in a sealed space about the size of a v berth and measure their blood CO2 levels at intervals. within an hour they would have PCO2 in the mid 50's (40 is normal) and have headaches and elevated heart rates. we did this so they could be aware of the subtle signs of increased CO2 in their blood. with sleep apnea, the airway gets blocked when asleep, and the same thing happens to the co2 in the lungs and blood, producing the same symptoms on awakening. However, if this only happens on the boat, I think you should leave the forward hatch cracked a little bit or install a ventilator. doesn't take much air flow to wash out the CO2.

steve naulty
E 35-3 "anodyne" (means painkiller)
galesville MD