E-27 Rudder Post Removal Problem

[Brad Graves]

I cannot get my rudder to fall out no matter what I do....the cockpit plate will not come off and the rudder will not drop.....there is no quadrant or fastener that I am missing is there? does the tube running from the hull to the underside of the cockpit attach to the tiller plate??

[Jeff Asbury]

I cannot get my rudder to fall out no matter what I do....the cockpit plate will not come off and the rudder will not drop.....there is no quadrant or fastener that I am missing is there? does the tube running from the hull to the underside of the cockpit attach to the tiller plate??

Do you have a wheel or a tiller? With my tiller, there is basically only one bolt holding the rudder post to the tiller cap. I did not have to touch the plate in the cockpit when I dropped it to put a new (bushing) nylon sleeve on it.

There is the possibility that the rudder post could possibly be bent in the tube. If you have a wheel, hopefully someone else will reply. I have no idea how those are attached.

[Brad Graves]

My tube must be bent up past the bushing.....that is the only answer....I have done some outrageous stunts trying to get this thing to slide out.....I used the weight of the boat to try to pull it out...a steel cable attached to the bottom of a piling that the boat was backed up to.......and no luck.

[jkenan]

It sounds like the boat is still in the water. Please confirm. I also assume emergency post, quadrant all all bolts are removed from the rudder post.

If so (and I hate to say it), using the the boat's weight or momentum as force to pull the rudder out may actually be exacerbating the problem, as this could contribute to the bending of the rudder post, or worse, break your shaft housing tube integrated to your hull.

I had to take my rudder on and off the boat multiple times while it was on the hard for a variety or reasons (mainly fairing and fitting of the rudder stub to the rudder after I relaminated that section of the hull), and it is no easy task even with a brand new rudder. It could be that the lower bearing has worn a slight groove in the post that is caught on the bearing (my old rudder had such signs), where careful positioning and alignment of rudder would allow it to free up and then drop. Or it could be the PO did something whacky to insure the rudder would not fall out accidentally.

If you have to get the rudder out, the boat is still in the water, and it won't budge, you may need to haul it and attempt it again with better access. It may be as simple as just finessing the rudder so it can slide out (which you can do with a mask and snorkel first), or doing some exploratory surgury by cutting in to the shaft housing tube for further inspection.

Good luck!

[Jeff Asbury]

I thought this might be helpful. This was from this site in the Specs & Docs section. Scans from the original owner's manual. I deleted the wheel steering section so I could make it small enough to upload.

Good luck with getting your rudder out. I did it with assistance of two other's at the yard. The hard part for me was not getting it out, but getting it back in with the sleeve correctly positioned.

[Loren Beach]

This rudder problem seems to needs its own thread, so I moved the problem-related posts.
Hope no one minds... and it makes future searches easier.

Jeff, that's a great post on the rudder drawings. Looking at it, I am wondering what on earth could be holding that rudder in place on the aggrieved vessel. :confused:
Last time I heard of a problem with a bent post, the bend happened right under the boat and jammed the top of the rudder against the hull. I know of this on an Ericson, a Catalina, and recently a smaller Cascade. :p

Brad, I wonder about your comment about the cockpit plate not coming loose. That might be the problem, maybe.

LB

[jkenan]

What is the "emergency post"..........

Your boat may not have an emergency tiller fitting on top of the rudder post if it is already a tiller-steered boat. What type of steering do you have?

My E29 is wheel steered, so there is a quadrant which the steering cables attach to, and on top of that is an emergency tiller fitting that goes over the top of the rudder post, which a tiller can connect to in the event the wheel steering fails.

Can you take a photo of the top of your rudder post and post it here so we can see what you are dealing with?

[HughHarv]

Since the top rudder bracket won't come off and the tube stops at some point, I would check for a burr or deformation where the bolt for the tiller goes through the rudder tube. Might just take a little hammering or grinding with finesse to free it up.

[Martin King]

Trying to do a diagnosis on this via the internet is difficult-especially
without seeing any pictures. If you are having this much trouble,
I would first haul the boat. Trying to do this in the water is not
advisable and stunts like you described may make it worse.

The shaft may be hung up on a burr, or perhaps the end of the shaft is mushroomed.
If there is enough clearance to get a bearing splitter under the cockpit plate fitting,
I would press it off and go from there. You may have
to cut off the tube to see the problem. If the shaft is kinked enough
to prevent the rudder from dropping, you may have no choice but to
cut it to get it out. Whatever you do, try to resist the urge to use a
bfh and large amounts of force. Where bearings are concerned, finesse
methods usually win the day.

[Brad Graves]

It is a tiller, no quadrant and the rudder post was up three inches when the accident happened..it is normally to allow for the tiller assembly....I knocked it down even with the plate trying to free the whole rudder and post.....underneath, it is sticking down two inches or more from the hull but still will not free completely.......I can see the post going into the plate and I did not "mushroom" it to catch it up top so the problem is in the tube somewhere...I have straightened the rudder from where it was to starboard and jutting into the hull a little....it is still high in the rear.......it is not that big of a rudder and I am just amazed it is resisted all I have done.....the bushing and whatever material the PO might have put in there must be bunched up in the tube.......I move the boat during high tide to a shallow slip and work on it at low tide when I can stand next to the rudder. Thanks for all the suggestions.......

[Jeff Asbury]

I agree with Martin, Haul the boat. I can't imagine trying to remove the rudder in the water even in a slip at low tide. Check out the pic of my E-27 out of the water.

Say if your keel is sitting on the bottom at low tide, you don't have enough clearance to pull the rudder post down and out. The rudder post is 35 inches long (almost 3 feet) above the top of the rudder. Your post most likely is bent from when your accident happened. It will need to be carefully removed and straightened as well as checking out the tube and bushings for damage. You should have about a even quarter inch clearance between the hull and the rudder when it is corrected.

Good Luck.

[Emerald]

And if necessary, cut the post top and bottom to remove it versus forcing it out and causing damage to the boat. Remember, it - whatever/wherever is bound, ultimately is secured to fiberglass, and while FRP is strong, a bfh, the big pry bar etc, can generate a huge load that is being transmitted to the surrounding structure. No need to make like the Amco transmission commercial monkeys and beat it to death and make more work for yourself.

[Sven]

I hate to say this but I don't see how you can bend a metal post inside a metal sleeve so it can't be pulled out - unless the sleeve was bent too.

Tell me I'm wrong ?



-Sven

[toddbrsd]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting the pics. I was wondering where the zincs are located. Now I know. Still learning!!

[Jeff Asbury]

Well your welcome Todd. I didn't think about that. Note that for the zinc on the strut you need a longer bolt that comes with the zinc. I am sure your diver will figure that out. The collar zinc is for a 1" shaft I believe. I have only replaced them in the yard myself. I leave it to the diver the rest of the time. Good news is that I have only been going through about one set a year.