Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Re: "webestos." That's ebonics for "We're Number One!"
Morgan Stinemetz
Morgan Stinemetz
Can you give us the quote? Presumably it is mentioned as a part of something somewhere on the boat.
(Perhaps just scan the pertinent pages and attach it as a PDF.)
Thanks,
Loren
davisr
Member III
Adam,
As a fellow E25 owner I know exactly what you're talking about. The E25 manual that is available on this very website says that "webestos" was used in the joining of the hull and the deck. The similarity of the spelling of this product name with asbestos raised the same concerns with me. I noticed this back before I ever purchased my boat. Accordingly, I searched this website and discovered no threads about it. Finding nothing here, I searched far and wide on the internet attempting to find some reference to "webestos" somewhere out there. No luck. I even called a former E25 owner I had met somewhere else on the internet to see if he knew anything about it. No luck. If you find out anything different, please let me know. Perhaps it was some sort of in-house name that Ericson gave to an epoxy recipe that they used for bonding purposes. As I recall, the "webestos" term is used in the hand-written portion of the manual. I don't know who posted this hand-written portion, but to me it was clearly meant for in-house purposes, not for publication. In other words, this portion seems like an instruction manual for Ericson employees.
Are there other manuals out there for other Ericson models that have these hand written instructions?
Roscoe
As a fellow E25 owner I know exactly what you're talking about. The E25 manual that is available on this very website says that "webestos" was used in the joining of the hull and the deck. The similarity of the spelling of this product name with asbestos raised the same concerns with me. I noticed this back before I ever purchased my boat. Accordingly, I searched this website and discovered no threads about it. Finding nothing here, I searched far and wide on the internet attempting to find some reference to "webestos" somewhere out there. No luck. I even called a former E25 owner I had met somewhere else on the internet to see if he knew anything about it. No luck. If you find out anything different, please let me know. Perhaps it was some sort of in-house name that Ericson gave to an epoxy recipe that they used for bonding purposes. As I recall, the "webestos" term is used in the hand-written portion of the manual. I don't know who posted this hand-written portion, but to me it was clearly meant for in-house purposes, not for publication. In other words, this portion seems like an instruction manual for Ericson employees.
Are there other manuals out there for other Ericson models that have these hand written instructions?
Roscoe
Webestos??
David, You might be on to something there. Marty and I have talked about that slurry in the context of being the filler used rudders of early E31's His hull, #22 has it in there as i recall while yours, hull #44 and mine, hull #55 are filled with foam. The only thing catch is that he used a different name to describe the stuff. Let's see if he picks up on this thread and maybe he'll chime in and straighten us all out. Cheers, Glyn
David, You might be on to something there. Marty and I have talked about that slurry in the context of being the filler used rudders of early E31's His hull, #22 has it in there as i recall while yours, hull #44 and mine, hull #55 are filled with foam. The only thing catch is that he used a different name to describe the stuff. Let's see if he picks up on this thread and maybe he'll chime in and straighten us all out. Cheers, Glyn
Reminds of a conversation with a boat builder quite a few years ago where I was commenting on cleaning up the bilge in our boat. There were lumps of excess jagged poly mush here and there where things were glued into place...
A chisel and some 40 grit paper was involved.
He chuckled and said that was often called Dooky-Schmootz! Goofy name, but it conjures up an accurate image of a poly putty with Odin-knows-what in it for a filler!
Nowadays we can study a learned tome from the Gougeon Bros. to instruct us in the proper filler to use for texture, strength, or ease of sanding, etc.
Of course, when I had a large gap to fill for a project in the distant past... I mixed in some handfulls of sawdust from under the table saw!
No asbestos in my shop, though.
Resinous Regards,
Loren
A chisel and some 40 grit paper was involved.
He chuckled and said that was often called Dooky-Schmootz! Goofy name, but it conjures up an accurate image of a poly putty with Odin-knows-what in it for a filler!
Nowadays we can study a learned tome from the Gougeon Bros. to instruct us in the proper filler to use for texture, strength, or ease of sanding, etc.
Of course, when I had a large gap to fill for a project in the distant past... I mixed in some handfulls of sawdust from under the table saw!
No asbestos in my shop, though.
Resinous Regards,
Loren
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Yes it does contain asbestos
Source: Gene Collman who was the production manager of Ericson.
Date: 1999 When i was talking to him about other issues related to fillers used in various parts of the boat.
Guy
Source: Gene Collman who was the production manager of Ericson.
Date: 1999 When i was talking to him about other issues related to fillers used in various parts of the boat.
Guy
Actually, Gene Kohlman was the president. His brother Don was doing
production. Don later moved over to Pacific Seacraft when they
acquired Ericson, and later became president of that company.
Anyway, I had always heard it referred to as mish-mash in house. Never heard it called webestos before.
I was once contacted by a law firm
looking for mesothelioma cases related to Ericson employees. I was a vendor for
Ericson, never an employee but I guess they were looking under every
rock. I'm still wondering how they found me.
Speaking of fiberglass, this reminded me of something I read recently in Professional Boatbuilder magazine. There was an article published
about Joe Artese, a designer who used to work with my father. Prior to that, he was working at Islander Yachts in the late 60's and described
what it was like: "There was fiberglass chop all over the place," Artese recalls. "The guard dogs would dump wherever, and in the morning the
guys wouldn't pick it up; they'd just shoot glass over it. Every two or three months someone would come in with a skip loader and haul it all out."
Costa Mesa was the epicenter for glass boat factories back then-and it was a free for all compared to now. OSHA and the AQMD had yet to
catch up with this industry. I still have this vivid recollection of touring the factory around 1970, and watching the workers in the mold shop
washing their hands in a bucket of acetone, and nobody was wearing tyvek suits, gloves, and respirators either.
Martin
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davisr
Member III
Well, this is disconcerting information for us E25 owners, and perhaps Ericson owners in general. But then again, it sounds like this sort of thing might have been going on all over the place (in other companies). I guess the only solace I can find in this is that the hull to deck joint in my boat is in fine condition and I should not be in any harm unless I, for some reason, disturb this joint by sanding, etc.
Do others have similar views of this situation?
Thanks,
Roscoe
Do others have similar views of this situation?
Thanks,
Roscoe
Disconcerting? Unless you worked in a factory and were exposed to
airborne asbestos daily over a period of years, I wouldn't worry about
it. It is buried in a resin matrix aboard our boats, after all.
Martin
airborne asbestos daily over a period of years, I wouldn't worry about
it. It is buried in a resin matrix aboard our boats, after all.
Martin
I'm with Roscoe, I'm not comfortable with this material in my boat. I have had 2 family members pass with lung cancer, 1 52 years old the other 35 years old. I don't want to add to that statistic.
One of my stanchions was loose and the deck was rotting so I cut it out, It's not near the joint I hope? I think I'm going to have the yard finish this repair.
another reference of using asbestos in boats around this year:
http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/Projects/GeneralInteriorPics.htm
One of my stanchions was loose and the deck was rotting so I cut it out, It's not near the joint I hope? I think I'm going to have the yard finish this repair.
another reference of using asbestos in boats around this year:
http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/Projects/GeneralInteriorPics.htm
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I always forgot who was which title, but now that you mention it, Gene did dress up more
They were both great guys when it came to supporting the E boats when it was Ericson, and later PS.Thanks Martin.
Guy
davisr
Member III
For me it's just a little annoying knowing it's there, but I'll get past it. It's sort of like lead paint in some of these old houses and buildings in Charleston. The lead won't bother you and long as you don't bother it.
I went back and looked at the on-line owner's manual. The only place that webestos is mentioned is indeed in the section on the hull-to-deck joint. It also says that on top of the webestos was placed 2 oz. mat and 6 oz. cloth. I took a look at my boat today. The joint is indeed buried underneath these resin-soaked layers. I'm not going to worry about it, and I don't think anyone else should either unless for some reason he should cut, grind, or sand that very joint. The stanchion area is on the horizontal plane, the hull-to-deck on the vertical, so I wouldn't worry about the stanchion.
As Martin said, it's the guys who were exposed long-term to the airborne fibers of asbestos (without respirators, etc) who became afflicted. Long-term exposure to all of the many solvents we commonly use today in boat repairs will do the same sort of damage to lungs and other organs without the proper safety equipment.
Just curious . . . has anyone else noticed the term "webestos" in any of the other owner's manuals for other models?
Roscoe
I went back and looked at the on-line owner's manual. The only place that webestos is mentioned is indeed in the section on the hull-to-deck joint. It also says that on top of the webestos was placed 2 oz. mat and 6 oz. cloth. I took a look at my boat today. The joint is indeed buried underneath these resin-soaked layers. I'm not going to worry about it, and I don't think anyone else should either unless for some reason he should cut, grind, or sand that very joint. The stanchion area is on the horizontal plane, the hull-to-deck on the vertical, so I wouldn't worry about the stanchion.
As Martin said, it's the guys who were exposed long-term to the airborne fibers of asbestos (without respirators, etc) who became afflicted. Long-term exposure to all of the many solvents we commonly use today in boat repairs will do the same sort of damage to lungs and other organs without the proper safety equipment.
Just curious . . . has anyone else noticed the term "webestos" in any of the other owner's manuals for other models?
Roscoe